Brake discs & Pads

[wingco]

Right then chaps/chapesses. Just had car MOT'd. Failed and then passed on emissions after some tinkering but only just passed the rear discs. The rear discs are ' SEVERELY ' corroded and thus need replacing. Question:

1. Is this a job for a novice?
2. What sort should I be looking for considering I don't want Top of the Range?
3. Have taken wheel off to look at how it all works, managed to get pins out that were welded in but couldn't get the pads out to have a look. Following haynes guide, am I missing anything about removing the pads. Should they pull out once pins are out.

Lots of questions but any help for this NOVICE would be appreciated.

Cheers.[8|]

1988 2.5 lux

 

[sawood12]

I would class myself as an experianced novice mechanic. I will tackle most maintenance work and most repairs but I wouldn't tackle anything that involes major dismantling of the engine - not usnless I had an experiance mate on hand. I have alot of understanding of how cars work and are put together but very little actual experience of tearing them to bits, however disc and pad replacement is a job I have tackled several times on several cars so I would recommend if you know one end of a spanner from another have a good understanding of the brakes and have researched the steps needed to carry out the job then you should have a go yourself. I've recently replaced the front pads and disks on my car and the only trouble I had was getting the disks off as they are a pretty tight fit to begin with and are even tighter once they've got a few years of brake dust, corrosion and muck jammed in every nook and cranny.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: wingco
1. Is this a job for a novice?

Define novice. If you mean doesn't know a spanner from a screwdriver, then NO. Remember that brakes make you stop, so you should know what you're doing before attempting any job in this area.

It's a very simple job, but I would suggest that you get a mate who knows what he's doing to help you out. Do not think that you can just read a book (especially a Haynes manual) and know what to do.

ORIGINAL: wingco
2. What sort should I be looking for considering I don't want Top of the Range?

Not sure what you mean here. Just replace the brake pads and disks with the same as you remove. Standard Porsche items are more than fine.

When you say that you don't want "top of the range" brakes, do I assume that you mean you aren't really all that worried about stopping? Skimp on engine or gearbox maintenance if you want, that'll only stop you getting to work/the girlfriend/your wedding etc. If you skimp on brakes or tyres, you're risking never arriving anywhere again (except in a box)

ORIGINAL: wingco
3. Have taken wheel off to look at how it all works, managed to get pins out that were welded in but couldn't get the pads out to have a look. Following haynes guide, am I missing anything about removing the pads. Should they pull out once pins are out.

I think you've just answered your won Q1. Get a knowledgeable mate to help you.[]

Cheers

James

 

[Guest]

I agree with the above, this is a simple job for the hobby/amateur mechanic, but due to the possible consequences of getting the job wrong, get an experienced mate to help if you're at all unsure.

I'd agree with going with standard spec replacement parts as well, you could get grooved and cross-drilled disks with fast-road pads (EBC, Mintex etc), but they would have more benefit on the front and unless the disk has been cast like that, they can crack in extreme use (the machining takes away a fair amount of structural integrity of the disk).

I've got to do my rear disks soon too, have the same rust problem.

 

[John Sims]

I disagree with the "back brakes are easy" scenario.

Front brakes are relatively easy assuming you can remove the little c/sk bolt. Back brakes are more difficult as you have the handbrake shoes and mechanism to contend with as well - Ask Paul McN about handbrakes..... but dive for cover when you do.

The other thing is almost why bother doing it yourself? If it is easy, it shouldn't take long, and will take a trained man with all the equipment even less time, so it shouldn't cost much. Granted you have to get the car to the garage and you have all the inconvenience of being without the car so, if a couple of hours on the drive saves that hassle then, I can see the point. If the car has to go in for a service, or other works, get the brakes done at the time.

 

[944cabby]

Well personally, i wouldn't mess with the brakes i'de get it in the garage - better to be safe than sorry.

 

[chrisr]

As said , Brakes and Tyres - get done properly and IMO dont skimp on a few quid, one stops you and the other may just keep you on the road, doesnt't really get more vital than that...

 

[Guest]

I agree. If one of my cars just needs brakes, I do it myself as it isn't worth the hassle of taking it to a garage to get done

If the car is going in for a service anyway, I just get the garage to do it. The cost saving isn't worth the fiddling about. By the time you get it home again, get the bits, take the wheels off and do the job, then clean yourself up afterwards. There's no point.

 

[944Turbo]

If the rear discs are severly corroded you could be dealing with sticking calipers. Zimmerman disc work well and are fairly priced available from ECP (see sticky at top of forum) or Bert Gear at Berlyn services. Might be worth painting the centres before fitting. Porsche pads are fine or greenstuff if you want less dust. Workshop manuals are very good (much better tthan the Haynes BOL) and available from websites for download or on CD.
Slackening off and adjusting the handbrake shoes can be tricky - I have done it a few times and I still swear each time.
Tony

 

[sawood12]

My Zimmermans are still as silver as the day they were fitted (two months ago now). No sign of any corrosion yet so they may have sorted that one out. I fitted EBC red stuff. Not really tested them yet so seem no different to OEM. They are certainly generating less dust though.

I like the noise the x-drilled disks make under reasonably heavy braking between about 40mph and 20mph. I nice decellarating graunching noise.

Although I agree that you shouldn't mess around too much with brakes unless you are very experianced I think that replacement of disks and pads is such a simple job anyone is capable of being taught and as a result it's well worth it. It may be a quick job but garages rarely charge you for a quick job and I have much better things to be spending my money on for the sake of a couple of hours one weekend.

It's the same as servicing. The vast majority of us know that you can perform a major service on a 944 yourself in less than an hour but garages take around 4 hours and charge you over £200. OK they say they perform a hundred point check list but I bet I still know the condition of my car much better than any mechanic after a poxy hundered point check list. This is the first car i've ever paid for servicing on and the only reason is to maintain my service history and it pains me every time.

 

[Guest]

Why bother about service history though? The cars aren't worth an awful lot, and if the only reason you're paying for the services is to get a stamp in the book, you will never recoup the money spent when you sell the car.

 

[944Turbo]

Or alternatively you will never sell the car without the servce history.
Tony

 

[sawood12]

Exactly, it's a viscious circle. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It depends upon the person who's buying. If I was buying a car that didn't have a full service history it wouldn't necessarily put me off as long as I had sufficient confidence that the previous owner had serviced it themselves according to the service interval (e.g. by providing receipts for the service items), but I would still use the lack of service history against them to knock the price down. One of the things that appeals about Porsche ownership is the lack of depreciation and I want to pass on the premium I payed for a FSH onto the person who eventually buys my car off me.

 

[Guest]

My point was more concerned with people who keep their car for a long time. If you've got a car that's worth 4 grand, and you spend an average of £400 on a service. By the time you've had 10 services, you might as well have done them yourself and thrown the car away at the end of it.

If you have a more valuable car, it's worth keeping up the service record, but by the time they've got to the levels of value of our cars, it's debatable whether it's worth it for the value of the car.

 

[wingco]

Thanks all. Think I will take the garage option on this particular job given the importance of being able to stop! Had a quote for Zimmerman discs and fitting for around £200 which seems fairly reasonable.

Thanks again.[]

 

[tim court]

ORIGINAL: wingco

Thanks all. Think I will take the garage option on this particular job given the importance of being able to stop! Had a quote for Zimmerman discs and fitting for around £200 which seems fairly reasonable.

Thanks again.[]

Bargain!

This is the kind of scenario where if you have to ask this level of question you should, by the fact you had to ask it, leave it to someone else.

I am no mechanic (but I did rebuild a Ford 1600 crossflow engine and gearbox a very long time ago) but it never ceases to amaze me how some very clever people are just simply not 'mechanically minded'.

Yes the job is a piece of cake, yes Zimmermans are cheaper and perfectly adequate, yes some fiddling with the handbrake adjustment can be errr.... fiddly? and yes you can have fun with corrosion under the calliper plate thingy and trapping your pads BUT if you have ANY doubts then you have answered your own question.

 

[Fen]

To be fair he isn't going to get any caliper plate lift fixed for £200.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

........ The vast majority of us know that you can perform a major service on a 944 yourself in less than an hour but garages take around 4 hours and charge you over £200. ......

I think that is a bit of a sweeping generalisation and depends where you take your car.

Although I do a fair amount on Beaky, including brakes, this is generally because I quite enjoy doing it and like to fiddle and clean bits at the time. Beaky goes to a small Porsche specialist for servicing, and pain in the bum jobs, and I am frequently surprised how little they charge for labour. They will also say if they don't think a job needs doing rather than go ahead and fleece me. As a result of their good practise they are very busy, I have to book six weeks in advance, so they don't hang a job out which maybe the issue of a less popular emporium.

I appreciate that there are bad garages, just as there are bad builders, plumbers, carpenters etc. but it does infuriate me when white collar workers consider that all tradesmen (this including mechanics) are dishonest pirates intent on doing a poor job and charging as much as possible (another sweeping generalisation []). In my experience good tradesmen are motivated by the desire to do a good job, and the remuneration is secondary. Those of you unfamiliar with this concept may think I'm mad (again) but it relates to mans desire/need to make things. This desire accounts for why artists will live in near poverty, and continue to create, rather than fulfil their lower motivational needs. Again perhaps a strange concept to those that don't understand it, and perhaps contrary to popular belief, but there are people who go into trades because that is what they want to do not because they are underachievers that can't do anything else.

I'll get off my soap box now.

 

[Guest]

Thought there was a reason I was broke.