Bushes

[pauly]

One of my anti roll bar bushes has been contaminated by power steering fluid, thought perhaps I should replace the lot with poly versions though at £75 they aren't exactly cheap, but do I really need to do the wishbone bushes as well bearing in mind the bill for the lot is around £140 [].

 

[PJS917]

No, If you only want to do the roll bar that is fine and quite simple to do.

 

[u63af]

I just replaced my front arb mounts with poly ones. I got the wishbone ones at the same time as it makes the front feel tighter. I got mine from powerflex on ebay.

 

[pauly]

Yes thought I could do the anti roll bar bushes without taking it off the car, are the wishbones as easy to do ?.

 

[Big Dave]

Not as easy as doing the ARB,s...

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Big Dave UK Not as easy as doing the ARB,s...

I'll save that job for when I put the Koni inserts in then.

 

[sawood12]

Odd how peoples perceptions of expense are so different. If there is one item that is cheap on our cars in my view and experience it is bushes. Just as a comparison the cost of one pair of two ARB bushes for my Focus is £125, and ARB bushes seem to be hellishly expensive on most cars except ours. A mate of mine had some bushes go on the rear of his Mondeo and of course because the bushes are bonded to the rear suspension beam the whole beam had to be replaced. I think he got a £500 bill for that.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: sawood12 Odd how peoples perceptions of expense are so different. If there is one item that is cheap on our cars in my view and experience it is bushes. Just as a comparison the cost of one pair of two ARB bushes for my Focus is £125, and ARB bushes seem to be hellishly expensive on most cars except ours. A mate of mine had some bushes go on the rear of his Mondeo and of course because the bushes are bonded to the rear suspension beam the whole beam had to be replaced. I think he got a £500 bill for that.

Regard it as odd if you like, just to give you some insight I used to work for a company that amongst other things manufactured belts for Ford, I needed one for my Cosworth, the price to Ford was under 3 quid, half a mile down the road at a Ford garage it was around 40 quid.

 

[A5DSR]

If you've got the wishbones off, might as well fit 968 castor mounts...of we go again, it just keeps adding up[] Don't forget the cost of re-alignment when its all put back together. Kerching. Darren.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: A5DSR If you've got the wishbones off, might as well fit 968 castor mounts...of we go again, it just keeps adding up[] Don't forget the cost of re-alignment when its all put back together. Kerching. Darren.

I'm going to get the geo done but obviously after everything else is fitted, so far 968 castor mounts, arb bushes, koni inserts, maybe wishbone bushes, going to fab some droplink braces myself, may fab a chassis lower brace as well if I get round to it, hopefully that will be the front sorted.

 

[Fen]

Make sure your ball joints are OK before you spend out on all this stuff and replace the front wishbone bushes as you wouldn't want to have to do it again for a failed one any time soon. You might struggle with a lower chassis brace on the Turbo as the corssover pipe gets in the way, which is what prevents the commercially available ones from fitting. On the other hand if you come up with something that works you might be able to sell a few should you be inclined to.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: Fen Make sure your ball joints are OK before you spend out on all this stuff and replace the front wishbone bushes as you wouldn't want to have to do it again for a failed one any time soon. You might struggle with a lower chassis brace on the Turbo as the corssover pipe gets in the way, which is what prevents the commercially available ones from fitting. On the other hand if you come up with something that works you might be able to sell a few should you be inclined to.

I had thought about the balljoints is there a check I can do myself ?, re the chassis brace, years ago I worked for Lola as a fabricator so it wouldn't be a problem, I just don't fancy rolling around under the car trying to make it fit if the benefits aren't noticable.

 

[sawood12]

I think the check for balljoints is to simply look for any play. You can get ball joint replacement kits but the OEM ones use plastic bushes which wear out pretty quickly from what I understand, you are much better off with metal (Phosphor Bronze) bushes which I don't think you can get with the OEM kits. One thing to be wary of is that if your ball joints are worn it could be that the ball has worn into the socket of the arm therefore wearing it into an uneven shape. This will accelerate wear of the replaced ball joint. This is often overlooked and people simply replace the ball joint with a kit. I know that when Autofarm replace balljoints they check for this and have made a tool that restores the socket geometry - however this obviously costs more than fitting the kit yourself.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: sawood12 I think the check for balljoints is to simply look for any play. You can get ball joint replacement kits but the OEM ones use plastic bushes which wear out pretty quickly from what I understand, you are much better off with metal (Phosphor Bronze) bushes which I don't think you can get with the OEM kits. One thing to be wary of is that if your ball joints are worn it could be that the ball has worn into the socket of the arm therefore wearing it into an uneven shape. This will accelerate wear of the replaced ball joint. This is often overlooked and people simply replace the ball joint with a kit. I know that when Autofarm replace balljoints they check for this and have made a tool that restores the socket geometry - however this obviously costs more than fitting the kit yourself.

Thanks for the advice, I had read about Hartech's rebuilt wishbones but didn't know other people rebushed them as well.

 

[Fen]

That's interesting. I've never replaced a balljoint with a kit, but from talking to a friend who has done (using the Rennbay one I think) I was under the impression that it was the whole thing. In fact as he was talking about pressing it into the arm I think it had to be the whole thing. I wasn't aware that some kits are only half of the joint and I can't say I like the idea for exactly the reasons you (Scott) describe.

 

[Wigeon Incognito]

Re balljoints, ask Peter (PJS917) about the company he has found that offer refurbishments. Peter helped me out with replacement balljoints and wishbones on a rolling exchange basis so my car wasn't off the road for a very very reasonable price. The quality is superb as verified by my indy who has seen a few offerings/kits over the years.

 

[pauly]

Not writing from experience but if I understand correctly the ball can wear through into the wishbone itself so the wishbone needs machining and bushing before replacing the balljoint.

 

[sawood12]

You can get OEM ball joint replacement kits, and I did mean Hartech and not Autofarm regarding the machining of the wishbone socket. What happens is that the plastic bushes that line the socket (acting like cartilage in your knee I suppose) and the ball can wear through quite quickly so you have metal to metal contact and in a battle between Steel and Aluminium Alloy Steel will always win so you get wearing of the alloy socket. IN the aftermarket kits (like the Rennbay ones for example) you can replace the plastic bush for Phosphor Bronze which not only provides more positive response but also resists wearing as Phospor Bronze. Also my Rennbay kit has a grease nipple so you can replace the grease in the joint at services. However even with metal bushes if the shape of the socket and the ball is not the same you will get high spots and wearing so Hartech have developed a machining method to machine the socket back to a conforming shape. Obviously there will be limits such that in cases where the socket is particularly heavily worn the arm may not be salvageable. I guess you can always simply replace the ball joint without restoring the socket geometry and you may get away with it during the time you own the car.

 

[diabloam]

as a wee note guys, i had a shot ball joint and rebuilt it myself with kit from porscheshop. Its was ok at first, but 6 months down the line, its was knocking again and proceeded to fail its mot. So bit the bullit and bought rebuild wishbone from hartech. The ball joint kit was a quick fix but didnt last, probably for the reason everybody mentions above. To check your balljoint you are best to keep the cars weight on the wheel and simply put a lever between wishbone and hub carrier and see if there is play, although you can usually feel it through the floor when driving along with the knocking.