Buying a 996

[steve lyden brown]

I am presently running an earlier model 911 but wish to change to a 996 next Spring when I will be looking for an early Tip Cab. In the meantime can anyone suggest a source of useful material on 996' s to help with getting an understanding of them ? In the past I have found compilations of road test reports to be really useful- anyone know of one of these on the 996 ?
Also- did 996 Cabs come with fitted hardtops from the beginning of their production or only from later on ? If so, then what year ?
One last thing - I know it is considered dumb to want to offer an earlier 911 ( mine' s a 964 Tip Cab ) to a dealer against a later 911 like the 996, but can a p/x like this have any benefits at all ? If nothing else it would cut out a lot advertising and timewasters etc !

Thanks,
Steve.

 

[Guest]

Hi Steve

I changed from a Boxster S to an early 996 C2 Coupe recently & spent a lot of time researching.
I got most of my info from other Bulletin Boards like this. Some of these are US based but the info is often relevant.

http://www.911uk.com/forum/
http://forums.rennlist.com/
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=48&h=0
http://209.123.252.154/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=996
http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/viewforum.php?forum=16

I also have a full AutoCar roadtest of a 996 C2 when it first came out - over 6 pages long & can send you a copy if you want via FAX or post. Unfortunately its not the cabrio roadtest but using the web I bet you could easily find a full roadtest of the cabrio when it first came out. Also bet its easy to find a timeline for the car (when things were revised or changed on the car etc)

Other than the above I did a lot of research on the web

I bought mine from an Independent specialist Cridfords - who I also got my Boxster from & can recommend them - a no frills outfit.
These are other places that I cam across when searching for my car.

Chapelgate http://www2.uk.porsche.com/chapelgate/
AutoBahn http://www.autobahn.co.uk/
Harbour Prestige cars http://www.harbourcars.com/
MA Carriage http://www.macarriage.co.uk/_mac.htm
Lodge Motor Company http://www.lodgemotor.co.uk/
Anthony Cope http://www.acope.co.uk/
Hagley Specialist Cars http://www.hagleycar.com/
Cridfords www.cridfords.co.uk
Bramleys http://www.racecar.co.uk/bramley/
Portiacraft www.portiacraft.com
Christopher Jackson http://www.christopherjacksonltd.co.uk/christopherjackson.htm
Castle Motors http://www.castle-motors.com/castlemotors1.htm
Camtune www.camtune.com

Porsche.co.uk also have a used car locator - their cars tend to be £3-4k more than specialist prices but come with Porsche warranties, breakdown cover, mint condition etc etc so worth a look too.

One last point.....many people consider the Boxster S to be a better buy than a very early 996 Cabriolet.
Its worth a look as 2 year old Boxster S prices have now fallen beneath £30k & 996 Cab prices are quite a bit over this.
There are plus & minuses for both cars - for me I always wanted a 911 so a Boxster was a stepping stone to that - but they are fantastic cars & drive beautifully.
I also have a full AutoCar roadtest of a Boxster S which is several pages long - let me know if you want a copy.

Hope this helps a little.

Julian.

 

[Grant]

Steve, glad to see that you are still looking at the 996, as far as I know all 996 cabs came with a hard top as standard.

I would have thought that you would get best value from your 964 by selling it through Porsche post, it' s worked for me before ! When it comes to trade-in at OPC' s I have found them to be rather tight to say the least, they don' t appear to offer overallowance on the PX as this is seen as discounting ...which they don' t do!! Infact in two instances I have got a better price for my car from a different OPC to the one that I was buying the car from !!! Why not consider buying privately, providing you have the car fully checked out by an OPC, & check the Vin via Porsche HQ (ensuring it is C16 Uk spec) you can get better value, all be it for more hassle, most OPC' s seem to have £4-5k in the cars, although they are well presented.

Julian has provided a great list of Web information, there is also another American site called funcarsonline, that have a good 996 section, including a print out sheet on frequently asked questions (I think Rennlist also have one of these).
In honesty it' s the choice of specification that is going to be the main issue for you, aside from C2 or C4. Having driven both, I think the C4 has the slight edge for driving balance (mainly because of the extra weight over the front wheels) & it has improved traction. If it was new I' d save the money & have a C2, but as the values are closer S/H I' d go for C4, which also has PSM as standard.

Options...must haves..18 inch wheels, upgraded sound system, wind stop, sports suspension (if you are a press on driver) then it' s down to you..perhaps a few alloy bit' s for the cabin & possibly sports (heated?) seats & cruise control for all these camera' s !!!

 

[steve lyden brown]

Hello Julian, Many thanks for your detailed and helpful reply. Your offer of a faxed roadtest of an early 996 is much appreciated. Can you fax it to me on 0870 1373957 ? Thanks. I got the impression from your reply that early 996' s may come with a few possible problems. Is this so ?
I am sure that Boxsters are great, but I am an avowed 911 fan. This is for a whole raft of reasons, not the least of which is that I can get my 6 year old daughter in the back of a 911 quite comfortably ! I shall certainly spend a few interesting hours checking out all the various websites you told me of.
Cheers, Steve.

 

[steve lyden brown]

Hello Grant, Thank you too for your valued input- particularly that relating to useful extras---is a windstop also called a deflector ? I think it might be, but it' d be no good for me since I have need to use the rear seat for a passenger. Since you omitted to mention it in your lists of extras, can I take it that traction control is standard on a 996 ?
Your comments on dealers, their profit margins etc. etc. was really eye-opening !
Cheers,
Steve.

 

[Guest]

Not really - nothing major anyway.

If you go here.....

http://forums.rennlist.com/

& half way down the 996 page there is a thread called " Maintenance questions with ' 99 C2" which is a good link
From memory the 2 that most spring to mind are Rear Main Seal which affects some cars & front wheel bearings (?) I think which has raised its head on Boxsters too.
The MAF is also mentioned here - though I have never heard of this being a common problem on UK cars though.
Early 996' s tended to rattle a little - mine doesn' t though - in fact my boxster rattled more !
A search on this board should pull up any " early 996 niggle" type posts...but thats all they are - niggle

I will FAX tomorrow as the road test is at home

 

[Guest]

Oh & rough idle - most early 996' s had a rough idle - mine does but is cured by putting the aircon on !
Seeing as I have it on most of the time I hardly notice it.

 

[Grant]

Hi Steve, you are welcome, the wind stop/deflector does negate the rear seats, as you mentioned, but is still worth having for solo trips !
Unfortuntely traction control wasn' t standard on the C2, it all depends on which model year you are looking at as to which system you would get, the earlier traction control system was ok, but not that hot in honesty, I used to turn it off most of the time ! The current system is far better & it' s limits are set so high that you can leave it on all the time, it' s called PSM (launched in 01MY I think, & standard on the C4 but extra on the C2) & this is very effective as it allows each wheels/brake to used independently for maximum control of under/oversteer, on the C4 it also uses the 4wheel drive system to apportion traction for further effect ! The first 996 I owned was a 98 car & this had what they called " the sports pack" fitted, that included sports seats, sports suspension & traction control (& 18" wheels I think) as part of the package. If you give the chassis number of the car you are looking at to Porsche HQ' s warranty department they will usually fax you it' s full specification & other details, providing it is a UK car.
There are a lot of 996' s in the secondhand market & you can afford to be choosey, you should get very good value at the moment. If you do decide to buy privately, make sure you get the car valued by a Porsche buyer (they all advertise in the Times on Sunday) & then you will know the true value of the car before you part with the folding.
Most private sellers seem to try & ask for near dealer prices, but they won' t get it, nearer the trade value is the reality. As I said B4 also make sure it is C16 (Uk spec) spec with FSH & have that OPC check over, let us know how you get on.

 

[Guest]

Grant this may sound like a stupid question but can I retrofit PSM or some kind of stability management module into my 1999 C2.

Wondering if it maybe a case of connector ready but just need switch and module to plug in.

 

[steve lyden brown]

Hello Grant, Thanks for all that useful info. It confirms that I really need as many roadtests/reviews as I can get my mitts onto ! Did any editions of the PCGB monthly mag give any useful articles on 996' s ?
Your message begs these questions :- You referred to " C16" . Is this a code for a UK spec. car ? If so, where it is featured - in the VIN no ? Will the Warranty Dept at Porsche HQ let anyone have details of the relevant spec. provided the Chas. No. is given ? Who are these " Porsche Buyers" you referred to in the Sun.Times ? Are they the " Have cash, will travel " fraternity- or are they the inspecting engineers that' ll check the car over for you ? Whoever the buggers are, don' t they advertise in the PCGB mag ?

One last question, how many bleeding 996' s have you owned !!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Steve.

 

[Grant]

ORIGINAL: VORLAND

Grant this may sound like a stupid question but can I retrofit PSM or some kind of stability management module into my 1999 C2.

Wondering if it maybe a case of connector ready but just need switch and module to plug in.

Hi Vorland, great pair of cars, look good on the drive.
As far as I am aware there is no way you can retro fit either traction control or PSM, sorry, what spec did you get ???.

 

[Grant]

ORIGINAL: steve lyden brown

Hello Grant, Thanks for all that useful info. It confirms that I really need as many roadtests/reviews as I can get my mitts onto ! Did any editions of the PCGB monthly mag give any useful articles on 996' s ?
Your message begs these questions :- You referred to " C16" . Is this a code for a UK spec. car ? If so, where it is featured - in the VIN no ? Will the Warranty Dept at Porsche HQ let anyone have details of the relevant spec. provided the Chas. No. is given ? Who are these " Porsche Buyers" you referred to in the Sun.Times ? Are they the " Have cash, will travel " fraternity- or are they the inspecting engineers that' ll check the car over for you ? Whoever the buggers are, don' t they advertise in the PCGB mag ?

One last question, how many bleeding 996' s have you owned !!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers,
Steve.

Hi Steve,
by the sound of your past careful selection of cars, you will get one hell of great 996.
The vin is displayed in the offside window, with the full number including country code & options fitted at factory/new on a paper sticker which is under the bonnet. Porsche HQ have always been very helpful with me & faxed through full details on a selected car, but only if it is UK sourced. Steve because demand outsripped supply on the 996, many independant dealers imported cars direct, some of these came via Cyprus, Switzerland etc into the Uk. Each country can have a slightly different specification, for example Germany does not spec. full leather, top tint, air-con or thatcham1 alarm as standard, where as these are all standard on a UK car. Each new car has a country code & the UK code is C16, so if the car isn' t C16 you will never find out exactly what it has or hasn' t got (for example underseal varies by country), Porsche uk are very cagey about other country specs. Although they are still proper Porkers I still think it' s best to avoid non C16.
The buyers I am refering to are Official Porsche Centre buyers, they are a gold mine of information & will give a true value on your choice.
In answer to your last question I am on Porker number 6, this includes 3 996' s (98, 01 facelift & 02 TT). Unfortunately I am a car nut &, like you,like to research the chosen purchase & enjoy reading reviews etc. Let me know how you get on & if you need any other info
Regards
Grant
P.S. I have never seen any useful reviews on 996' s in PCGB mag. although the 996 register does offer Gary Sorrell from Lancaster Porsche as an expert contact.
best review' s Autocar, Evo & a buyers guide in Porsche & 911 world + Evo.

 

[steve lyden brown]

Hi Grant, If I am fortunate to get a good car when I eventually buy my 996, it' ll be more because you have taken the trouble to provide all the info. you have, rather than by dint of any skill on my part ! Good Grief, I had no idea about all the imported 996' s that were brought into this country to meet demand ! Won' t these all be left hookers, though ? What side do they drive on in Cyprus and Switzerland ! I am also curious as to your comments about demand exceeding supply - perhaps this was the case, but unless I am horribly wrong, aren' t 996 prices diving right now ? They certainly appear to be so to me, and I make this comment based on my observation that six months ago you' d need £50 k for the spec. I want, whereas I have seen 2 or 3 996 Cab Tips available for less than £40 k now.
Have you ever thought of putting all of your 996 buying knowledge in a letter to the PCGB mag ? It' d certainly help people like me through the minefield ! Counting my old man' s 911' s I reckon to have had 16 pass through my hands ( 9 were mine ). I had thought that I knew ' em just a tad or two- I am not so sure now !
Cheers,
Steve

 

[Grant]

Hi again Steve, thanks for the kind words, I am sure if it was a 964 Porker we were chatting about I would be learning much from you.
Just clarifying the import thing, the cars are RHD, you can order a right hand drive direct from the factory for any country (EEC regs.) but also need to specify country build, hence C16 or otherwise. You are right about prices dropping on 996' s, but they are a victim of their own success, waiting times were a year in OPC' s & people weren' t willing to wait + exchange rates were good, hence many import' s. Now the 996 has been out for 6 years (& the new 997 is due end of next year) demand is obviously tailing off & as you say they represent a damn good buy.
9 Porkers eh, I see you have the car bug as well, it' s a slippery slope this car thing, go looking for a Reliant Robin & end up with a Lambo !!!

 

[steve lyden brown]

Grant,
Jumpin' jehosaphat ! Every mail from you yields even more nuggets of 996 info ! I can see I'm gonna have to start reading the Club magazine ( Heaven help me, since the mag.is just a tad on the dry, or do I mean boring ?, side ) Was that how you learned about the 997 ? From what you say, I am tempted to postpone my 996 purchase in order to get the latest car for the lowest moolah- all the more so since I do want traction control ( having lost control of my 964 BIGTIME a couple of years ago ! ), plus I think that a C4 is probably more sensible, since I can see me using the new 911 all year round rather than, as I have done for a donkey's age, use it in the Summertime only.

I am looking forward to getting the faxed 996 info. that Julian is going to send me, but in the meantime, is it worth buying any of the Porsche/911 mags that now abound ( or do they ? I strolled into my local W.H.Smith yesterday and there was nary one to be seen ! )
Have a Good One !
Steve.

 

[Grant]

Ayup Steve,
being a sad petrolhead, I have subscriptions to Autocar (who unveiled news of the 997 first) & Evo, plus usually end up with Car & others !!! I find PCGB mag. the same as you do & I'm not a big fan of the specialist Porker mags (although I still tend to read them!!) unless you are looking for new goodie's for your pride & joy. I think the best two buyers guides where in Evo & porker & 911 World who should be able to get you a back issue.

I notice that your father has also had 5 Porkers, is this 911 thing hereditary ??

 

[Andrew Killington]

Hello Julian
can you give me your opinion of the differences you have found between your 996 and Boxster S. Currently I own a S so it would be good to get some feedback from a driver of both
all the best
Andy

 

[Grant]

Andrew, at the risk of hogging this thread a bit, I can give you some feedback (prior to Julian answering) as we are lucky enough to also own a Boxter "S" & I have had a pre-& facelift C2.
I actually think the Boxter is the best value Porker in their range & despite having a TT I still love driving the S , particularly roof down on a sunny day, here with my thoughts
for what they are worth.................. Compared to a standard Carrera 2, the Boxter sounds better & has sweeter handling, also the wind in the hair aspect is hard to beat.
The C2 has noticably more grunt (particularly the facelift, which has MUCH better midrange/low rev pick up) & a different & unique feel because of the rear engine, it feels better slower into a corner & faster out of. It has more outright grip, but will also understeer & "float" more than the Boxter. Coming out of an "S" I would STRONGLY recommend the 10mm lower sports suspension, this transforms the feel of the 911 & although it will have a firmer ride than the Boxter, it makes it into a more hard core
drivers car. The C4 has extra weight over the nose & that combined with the extra traction make it feel more planted & chuckable !!

Summary...If you want a soft top stay with the Boxter, it's hard to beat, particularly on a nice sunny day.

If you want a more hardcore drivers car get a 911, but it must have sports suspension (10mm, the 30mm is far too harsh) & a sports exhaust if it is pre-facelift (they improved the exhaust note on facelift cars). Best value of the current 911 range for me is the current C4S, but they are still overpriced second hand at the moment ! Let me know if you need any other info, if I haven't bored you to death by then !!!

 

[steve lyden brown]

Attention of Julian Bolger,
Hi Julian, I never did get the copy of the 996 roadtest you offered to fax me.
I know it is a pain to have to fax 6 pages, but I'd really appreciate it if you would. My fax number is 0870 1373957.
Or is a snailmailed photocopy to me better for you ? If so, then my address is :- "Malladyne House", Carlton Bank, Harpenden,AL5 4SU.
Cheers, Steve Lyden-Brown.
p.s. Do you know of a website that gives 996 timeline info ? I haven't been able to find one.

 

[Andrew Killington]

Grant
just got back from hols - thanks for your useful summary; I may well take you up on your offer for further info
regards
Andrew