C2 or a C4?.... An age old question!

[ajonesy]

Hello all,

I'm on the look out for a manual 993. I've heard varying opinios on the C4 but would like some more inputs. Are they heavier on petrol? Do the require more costly maintainence? More importantly does the 4WD spoil the experience?!

Thanks!

Al

 

[968er]

Generally no to all your questions.

The best advice is to try them both, but in the end go for the best example available to you. I have had both and they were both fantastic cars.

 

[sidned]

The important thing to find is the right car in the colour that suits you. If it's a 2 or a 4 should not be an issue. I was looking for a 2 when a 4 came along and ticked all the boxes. I'm totally happy with it, the only downside being the slightly smaller boot space.
The driving experience is not compromised IMHO, in fact a C4 will put 90% of the drive to the rear for most of the time and only go into 4WD mode when traction is lost. This means you cannot slide around with the tail out, but you also have the advantage of being able to put more power down coming out of a tight bend in the wet.
I had a play in the snow a couple of weeks ago on a deserted stretch of road and it took quite a lot of provokation before the ABD light came on, but the 4WD was working independantly of this as I could see the snow being thrown out by the front wheels spinning.
Anyway, unless boot space is an issue, go for condition rather than 2 or 4WD. I have two young girls who often come for a drive and I personally find the 4WD offers a little more in the way of safety if I had to make an emergeny manouvre. Again - this is my personal opinion!

 

[Pickled Piper]

I'm shocked. This is the first sensible thread i've found on this subject, ever.

I totally agree, go and find the best you can and don't worry about C2 or C4. I did and ended up with a C4.

The 4WD system is not like an agricultural off roader. So most of the time you are unaware that it is present. I guess the C4 does use more fuel but not to a degree where it would bother you. Maintainance is marginally more expensive on the C4 as you have to change the transmission oil in the front diff at 48K intervals.

If you are using the car exclusively on track then I would suggest a C2. However, in real world conditions with wet greasy roads the C4 has phenomenal traction. Porsche put it there for a reason!

pp

 

[968er]

It is also the same system that is used in the Turbo!

 

[38F3E1]

For myself it has always been and will always have to be 2WD. I've come to the 993 through earlier 911s which is probably why.

Ian.

 

[Porker993]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

For myself it has always been and will always have to be 2WD. I've come to the 993 through earlier 911s which is probably why.

Ian.

And for me. You just have to give it due respect in the wet.

 

[Mark Elder]

ORIGINAL: ajonesy
Do the require more costly maintainence?

As I've just discovered (see other thread) the engine needs to be dropped to change a clutch on a C4, but not on a 2.

I don't believe the boot size thing. Never actually measured it but I did not spot any difference looking at examples before I purchased. I was told it does differ on the 996.

Never actually driven a C2 so can't comment on the really interesting question, but in the wet (lots in Scotland) the 4 certainly grips the road (although I can still get the rear to slide out leaving roundabouts in the wet with loads of right foot).

The ABD is amazing. Tested it recently on a hill with a river of ice down left hand side of road. Stopped car with left wheels on ice. 1st gear, hit the pedal. Green ABD light comes on and the car blasts up the hill in a straight line like there is just pure tarmac. (just a slight sound of a bit of scrambling for grip). Scary because I was not really expecting such immediate speed and did not really want to test the ABS in same way!

 

[sidned]

As I've just discovered (see other thread) the engine needs to be dropped to change a clutch on a C4, but not on a 2.

That is not correct. I had my clutch changed last year and they did it without having to drop the engine. Some garages will say you need to drop it, but I can confirm that mine was changed without dropping the engine.

 

[TISPKJ]

Guys interesting topic, has anyone tried the two cars back to back on circuit, Im thinking the C4 will understeer on track a fair bit and you will loose that rear slide abilty of the C2 ?

 

[ajonesy]

Thanks guys some really good inputs! Not sure about if the engine needs to be dropped when changing the clutch but if it's more work and expensive on a C4 then it's definitely something to note when buying (possible bargaining tool if it hasn't been done).
Agree that it's good to drive both the C2 and the C4 but it's difficult to get a good feel for the car when test driving (can understandably only drive them so hard with the owner sitting next to you!). But from what read and discussed, I get the sense that they are both great cars but the C4 has a little less edgyness about it, which can be either a good or a bad thing depending on taste.
From reading this thread I definitely wouldn't discount one if it looked the part.

Just need to find one now, which is no easy task with the strong prices they are fetching!! If anyone hears of a good example under £25k please let me know!

 

[leesweeney]

ORIGINAL: ajonesy

Thanks guys some really good inputs! Not sure about if the engine needs to be dropped when changing the clutch but if it's more work and expensive on a C4 then it's definitely something to note when buying (possible bargaining tool if it hasn't been done).
Agree that it's good to drive both the C2 and the C4 but it's difficult to get a good feel for the car when test driving (can understandably only drive them so hard with the owner sitting next to you!). But from what read and discussed, I get the sense that they are both great cars but the C4 has a little less edgyness about it, which can be either a good or a bad thing depending on taste.
From reading this thread I definitely wouldn't discount one if it looked the part.

Just need to find one now, which is no easy task with the strong prices they are fetching!! If anyone hears of a good example under £25k please let me know!

Agree with nearly everyone on condition, colour etc rather thw 2wd vs 4wd with one caveat. If you really are very handy behind a wheel then the 2 wd will give the purer drive and certainly if you do a lot of track days the better feel on track. 4wd is safe though.
I am not really handy behind a wheel and have a C2S which I probably give too much repect to but I enjoy more than my previous 996 which was great on the road but understeered all over the place on track.

 

[TJW964]

I have a 964 C2 and as others have said, it need some respect. I found a C4 much easier to just get into and throw around, whereas the C2 took months to become comfy with.

More important than which you choose is to get an indie to look over it for you before parting with money. I also did an HPI. Worth the cash for comfort later.

Good hunting.

 

[Big Brin]

If the 993 C2 or C4 is your first 911, then go for the best condition of either in your budget....... One specialist told me that he couldn't really tell the difference if he didn't know which car he was driving. (Although he should be able to tell simply as the C4 has a metal insert on the top of the gear knob, and the C2 doesn't!)I have a C4 and it's an absolute belter of a car (I have TVR's before), but after only 2 months of ownership I want to upgrade to a 996. Reason? The 993 was bought with heart. It was (and is) the stuff of schoolboys dreams, but I am not as small or short as I was when I was dreaming about it...the 993 is just a tad too small for my behemoth size, and I want to use it at the weekends for the family too......so 996 I have to go.... but for a 993, the C4 derivation is great.

Rgds, Brin

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: TISPKJ

Guys interesting topic, has anyone tried the two cars back to back on circuit, Im thinking the C4 will understeer on track a fair bit and you will loose that rear slide abilty of the C2 ?

Surely the C2 will have more of a tendancy to understeer than the C4? One of the benefits of 4wd is that in understeer conditions it transfers more power to the front to pull the front end into line and the extra weight of the front diff over the front axels should provide extra grip. I'd have thought a C2 with a relatively lighter front end will be more likely to understeer, especially with an empty fuel tank. My take on this has always been to buy on condition irrespective of a 2wd or 4wd, as already suggested, however if it was a 2nd car and I were to do a number of trackdays a year i'd probably be more swayed to the 2wd due to the potential for a more involving drive. But ultimately i'd be happy with either!

 

[Guest]

I agree "colour and condition" I had a choice of two, both silver with black interiors - the classic combination IMHO.
I went for the C4 and I love it to bits. It's surreal to feel all four wheels scrabbling away and sorting it all out when it gets greasy underfoot.
Also my wife drives the car - Boy she looks hot behind the wheel with a bit of red lippy and her shades on! Not to denigrate her driving skills but I rest easier knowing she has the extra safety blanket of ADB and four wheel drive, especially on a wet, winter night, or when she is pulling wheelspins to impress young men at bus stops!