C2 or C4??

[Guest]

Hi,

Unfortunately my soon to be purchase of a C4 has fallen through after the car was inspected.........the words oh dear mentioned several times i believe. The car concerned had 5 engine oil leaks along with a power steering leak non working A/C (no surprise there) and a damaged N/S wish bone bush along with some paint problems round the windscreen. Not bad for a 1995 1 owner FPSH car!!! So its back to hunting again, the question I have is that is there any real driving diffence in the C4 over the C2 as I am having trouble locating another C4, but can find several C2's would I really notice the difference??

Any advice would be great while I dry my eyes over my last experience[&o] but thankfully only out of pocket by £100.

Thanks

Pete

 

[Rotorhead]

This question is regularly asked in relation to 964s, 993s and 996s, so may be worth doing a search. I'm firmly in the C2 camp - let the rear wheels do the driving and the front wheels do the steering.

 

[968er]

Bad luck, just goes to show that full PSH means nothing if it has not been serviced by people who only know how to plug in a diagnostic machine and then tick a service book[]

Having owned a C2 and now a C4, you will notice very little difference between the two cars except the C4 is quicker! Most of the talk from people is how it behaves on the track, however even if you do track the car, you will probably do the majority of your driving on public roads and it is more sure footed. Don't be fooled that you can just chuck it around because it has the 4wd system, it can and will still bite back if you do something silly.

Also just to let you know about how the car drives, I have just replaced the tyres all round, the fronts had about 5-6mm tread left and the rears were down to about 1mm. So this just proves that all the power goes through the rear and only reverts to 4 wheel drive when things start to get out of shape. I think I have only invoked the 4wd system about 4 times and this has always been in the wet.

 

[stuj76]

Pete

Speak to chrisr - I think he has just been for a test drive today in a 4 but has opted to buy a 2 from the same dealer, therefore there is a 4 still at the dealers and he will be able to give you his opinion on the 2 and 4. See thread '993 purchase'.

Stu

 

[Sundeep]

more space under the bonnet for storage in a C2.....

 

[Pickled Piper]

Much has been witten about this subject. I have a C4. I didn't set out to buy one but it came up at the right time, in the right condition at the right time.

If your driving is only on the track and on dry roads then there is very little difference between the two, Arguably, the C2 has slightly better steering feedback. However, if you plan to use the car in all weathers then the C4 has some significant advantages. The level of traction and grip available on wet or damp roads is astounding. I've found that when powering out of a bend or exiting a wet roundabout the C4 just squats down, grabs the tramac and goes. In comparison other cars will be slithering or will round the bend gingerly, the C4 disappears over the horixon like it has been delivered from a slingshot.

pp

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Pickled Piper

The level of traction and grip available on wet or damp roads is astounding. I've found that when powering out of a bend or exiting a wet roundabout the C4 just squats down, grabs the tramac and goes. In comparison other cars will be slithering or will round the bend gingerly, the C4 disappears over the horixon like it has been delivered from a slingshot.

pp

I may have lost the plot here but, I thought a good description of traction is grip that allows acceleration. So C2 good; C4 better. My understastanding is that grip for cornering and braking is a very different thing. Can someone please point me to an article where a 4wd system such as on the C4 provides better cornering/braking grip?

Does the C4 squat down because it weighs 100kg more than a C2? (Rhetorical ;o))

Regards

Bob

 

[Rotorhead]

That's largely correct. 4wd is useful in directing traction to all four road wheels, especially when trying to apply maximum power on a loose surface - hence the dominance of 4wd in rallying.

However, under most UK road conditions, and on track, the advantages are questionable. As Maurice says, tyres are far more influential or, in the case of later cars, electronic assistance (ESP/PSM/DSC). Audi have persevered with 4wd, whilst BMW have always adhered to rwd - and which firm makes the best drivers' cars?

With the 993, the relative merits of both models are very marginal, so it's probably better to buy the best example and regard the drive system as secondary.

 

[LK_991GTS]

Getting the best example of whatever (2 or 4) comes along would be best if you don't have a preference.

I haven't driven a "4", but many testers say that the steering feel of a "2" is preferrable and that the advantages of a "4" in terms of traction are not often seen in actual day-to-day use. With a "4" you get more weight and less boot space.

So it may be idea to get a drive of both so that you can decide first if you have a preference.

 

[Guest]

Before we knock the 4wd system off, let's consider that it is standard fitment to the TT!

There are 3 parts to the 4wd system of the C4/TT:
1) viscous coupling for the 4wd between fore/aft.
2) ABD (Auto Brake Diff - individual brake sensors per wheel)
3) mechanical LSD on the rear axle

It's worth noting that the viscous coupling only transfers between 5% upto a max of 40% to the front axle. Under hard acceleration out of a tightening bend (like most roundabouts) you can feel the transfer of power to the front wheels when powering out of bends when the back end would otherwise be going waywards; there is a gradual transition when the "push" becomes an assisted "pull". The ABD (standard on C4 and TT) also helps by reigning in wheelspin at the rear under the same conditions. Under acceleration, the mechanical LSD locks up the rear axle up to 25%, and under braking upto 40% on the overrun. This is great under hard braking when you can feel the back end track in a more controllable manner.

I have driven both and made my choice for a C4 based on the fact I drive mine in damp/rainy conditions and that many roads and roundabouts near where I live are often smeared with oil/diesel to make the driving more fun. In dry conditions, it often behaves like a C2, but provides enough tools to provide traction when the C2 would have no answer. The C4 is a little more ponderous around town and it holds one less grocery bag from Tesco, but on the open road when making quick progress on damp roads, I know I have been thankful many times as I've felt the equipment do what it was designed for.

 

[Guest]

Oh my god 1 less grocery bag!!!! that's it I will have to get a C2[][][] you make an interesting point but I have found an excellent C2 (subject to inspection) and have been unable to find the same in a C4. The last C4 I had inspected needed about 3K of work without the paint issues[] and my mechanic who I might add is a Porsche expert and has been for 30 years used 3 words I have never heard him say before "get another one" so now I am thinking do I wait for another one only to be disappointed again or do I purchase the C2 which I know will be excellent because of where it's coming from? I don't drive that mad especially in the damp/wet because as it's a Porsche I feel that it has nothing to prove to anyone......now if it was a saxo it would be different[]. I currently have a 964 tip and have never lost that in the wet even when I have decided to have a little play (which is rare). So based on this I feel a good quality C2 with excellent history and warranty is probably my better choice do you agree?

Regards

Pete

 

[Rotorhead]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 964driver

Oh my god 1 less grocery bag!!!! that's it I will have to get a C2[][][] you make an interesting point but I have found an excellent C2 (subject to inspection) and have been unable to find the same in a C4.  The last C4 I had inspected needed about 3K of work without the paint issues[] and my mechanic who I might add is a Porsche expert and has been for 30 years used 3 words I have never heard him say before "get another one" so now I am thinking do I wait for another one only to be disappointed again or do I purchase the C2 which I know will be excellent because of where it's coming from?  I don't drive that mad especially in the damp/wet because as it's a Porsche I feel that it has nothing to prove to anyone......now if it was a saxo it would be different[].  I currently have a 964 tip and have never lost that in the wet even when I have decided to have a little play (which is rare).  So based on this I feel a good quality C2 with excellent history and warranty is probably my better choice do you agree?

Regards

Pete

If you have found the C2 that you are looking for in terms of condition, colour, etc, then go for it! Is the C2 tip or manual? I ask only because I have found that a "play" in a manual gives more room for driver-input-error than a Tip, with the resulting need for more modulated input to avoid ham-footed leg inputs that induce brown-trouser moments! [][]

Good luck!

 

[Guest]

Hi,

No C2 is manual so will keep spare pair of boxer shorts in glove box for wet days!![][] interrupt that as you wish![][] need to get used to 6 forward gears to[]

Will update if I purchase

Thanks to everyone for there input

Pete[]

 

[zwhitea]

I have had the chance to drive a number of different 911's all of them handled differently... with the 993 C4 we have found it a real great car to drive, and have felt safe and in control at all speeds and in in all type of weather.
I have not noticed the extra weight and less luggage space, but do notice the handling and impressive breaking.

Still the whole point for my post is to say that if you are looking for a C4 and don't mind a Cabriolet with loads of factory options, such as full colour coded leather interior, 18" turbo wheels etc. Then our C4 will be up for sale soon, if I can't persude her otherwise. As she wants to raise some funds for a house purchase and get an Elise instead..?

 

[968er]

Basically buy on condition. I now have a C4, but was actually looking for another C2. You know when you have agood one just by driving it, so unless you really want a C4 get the car you have seen.

 

[38F3E1]

Pete.

90% of the time you probably won't notice the difference and a C4 will prove just as rewarding to own because how many of us really drive at 9/10th on the roads anyway? However for me I prefer the balance that the C2 has and once you take the time to learn how to drive it well (using an instuctor is the best way) I find it the most rewarding setup.

I read a number of posts above talking about senarios where a C4 will be superior and all I can say is that if you drive a C2 in the way described then no wonder because it is the wrong way to drive it. The C2 and C4 drive differently and you can't compare them using the same technique. The C4 is probably the easier car to drive without effort because it feels safer, is more neutral and is more forgiving (more like other cars) but if you were to drive both using their respective best technique the C2 will be faster.

Ian.

PS The more cars you look at the more you will be able to judge condition before paying for a PPI. The number of owners and FSH mean nothing in general. Good luck in your hunt and don't give up. I know people who have looked a several before finding one in suitable condition.

 

[pse_SC]

2's company, 4's a crowd[]

 

[willstatt]

Absolutely! Buy on condition... I was really looking for a C2 when I bought my car 2 1/2 years ago, but just couldn't find a good one. Then came across a fantastic '97 C4 and bought that and have never regretted it.

Will