C4S Advice

hothatch2002 · Jun 19, 2006

Was going to upgrade my 996 C4 to a turbo earlier this year, but didn't materialise, and have now had a change of heart - want to try for a C4S. I think they look great cars - made my C4 look a bit plain when I parked next to one!!
Anyway any advice would be welcome- do they have the same RMS issue etc etc etc. When were they first introduced, what was the standard spec, how many were made, 3.4 or 3.6 engine, have they now ceased production. What are the residuals like (I know this is a bit of a crystal ball question) because the 993 C4S models are asking quite high values ( for nice ones).
My personal feeling is that they will always be desirable, especially when you compare a 996 C4S, to the new 997C4S - because the new one doesn't look that much different from the normal 997 C2 or C4 (admittadly I haven't seen the new 997 models next to each other, but it doesn't seem obvious to me when I have been following them on the road) whereas the 996 models are worlds apart in appearance.
Any views on this??
Simon

Rob Edwards · Jun 19, 2006

Hi Simon
Yep, unfortunately the RMS does apply to this engine, but to put it in perspective it is a prety rare occurrence and even if it occurs it is seldom very serious. The ones not affected (different design) are the GT3, GT2 and Turbo models (I think).
Not sure on spec, I'm afraid - no doubt you'll get a lot of help from others on the forum.
Lovely car - just don't forget the inspection and warranty![

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Rob

Michael Downing · Jun 20, 2006

They are all 3.6 engined, as the C4S was introduced after the facelift.

marcus a · Jun 24, 2006

I had the exact same dilema but in the end I went for the turbo because they are now very similar money and you will find they generally will have a better spec. The only thing that I feel the C4S has over the turbo is the switchable sports exhaust with the turbo sounding rather muted by comparison. Unless you go aftermarket but as far as I know you can't get switchable, so if I were getting a C4S this would be a must. I'm not saying the C4S is'nt the real deal but if you want a car to really put a smile on your face, it has to be the turbo every time.

Ess_Three · Jun 28, 2006

ORIGINAL: marcus a

I had the exact same dilema but in the end I went for the turbo because they are now very similar money and you will find they generally will have a better spec. The only thing that I feel the C4S has over the turbo is the switchable sports exhaust with the turbo sounding rather muted by comparison. Unless you go aftermarket but as far as I know you can't get switchable, so if I were getting a C4S this would be a must. I'm not saying the C4S is'nt the real deal but if you want a car to really put a smile on your face, it has to be the turbo every time.

I went the other way...
It was the choice between a year or so old turbo, or a new C4S...
The turbo is undoubtedly faster...but I found the character of the car led you to back off on the bends and blast past on the straight bits.
The C4S on the other hand made you work harder on the twisties as you didn't have the warp speed on the straights...
To me, a more rewarding drive.

The C4S is much more throttle adjustable mid bend too...

I agree that PSE is a must..and with it the C4S sound just about as good as it's possible to hope for.

I also added the X73 suspension pack to mine...which some say is too stiff for road use. I love it...
It really is perfect for the likes of the 'ring.

Rodney Naghar · Jun 12, 2007

For the same money 996 turbo or MK1 GT3 surely? And you're much less likely to lose money on the former and you may even make money on the latter.
IMO the C4S is really overpriced and is bought mostly for the good looks. (stunning imo)

Diesel130 · Jun 12, 2007

Ditto - can't see the C4S prices holding up as well as the turbos. GT3 is obviously a different beast with only 2 seats / track optimised suspension etc.

C4S al · Jun 12, 2007

Hi,

A much debated topic. I have a C4S and prefer normally aspirated over Turbo. In my opinion the C4S is the best looking 996.

You have stated the spec and I agree with the colour and leather, PSE, litronic lights but the Sat Nav is not a deal breaker now. Far better after market products out there. However if you go for pre 2003 easier to install over the 2003 plus MOSTbus optic fibre.

It is difficult to determine depreciation with the external environment presently ie oil prices, interest rates etc. However my intuition is that the 996 C4S will become iconic. The perfomance of the C4S 997 is no great shakes over the 996 and the 996 is better looking period.

You can go the 996 TT route but be mindful of higher running costs.

I had the same decision 16 months ago and opted for the C4S over the TT and do not regret it. Plenty of power for me. Are you going to track it regularly if so then a GT3 is the boy. Do you need 4 seats??

Regards Alan.

Dylan1 · Jun 12, 2007

i lost 10k in a year on my c4 so i hate you very much[

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i do much prefer the look of the 996c4s but afraid i really dont agree that it will become iconic in the same way as the gt series so i would definately go that route if depreciation is a worry........

NXI20 · Jun 12, 2007

There's a 996 buyers guide in GT Porsche this month. According to Camtune & Specialist Cars of Malton, they are seeing a slowing of the silver cars & more interest in the more unusual colours and people are avoiding PCM as they are now out of date.

PS
Oh, yes, there are also concerns surfacing over noisy front diffs it seems.

C4S al · Jun 12, 2007

ORIGINAL: dyllan

i lost 10k in a year on my c4 so i hate you very much[][][]
i do much prefer the look of the 996c4s but afraid i really dont agree that it will become iconic in the same way as the gt series so i would definately go that route if depreciation is a worry........

Hmmmmm Dyllan,

I bet 1 pint of beer, unless I am breaking some forum gambling rules[

] that the 996 C4S will be iconic.Just my intuition. Time scale 6 years. We can meet up for a the winning pint in a nice South Wales pub.

Regards Alan

Dylan1 · Jun 12, 2007

alan
i1ll be very happy for you if it does!!because i like its looks a lot1
mines a pint of crw felinfoel!!lol[

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hothatch2002 · Jun 13, 2007

Many thanks for your replies - I see what you're saying about the Turbo choice, I hadn't thought of that, but can you find one for £40k ?
If the car was for me only then I would have bought a GT3 in an instant as I do a lot of trackwork, but I have a CSL for that (I know I've defected - but it is a cracking tool for the money and the SMG box is the best sequential box on the market).
Having slept on it - I think that some of you may be right about the C4S not holding it's value, despite the fact that it looks better than current models. Once they become 7 or 8 year old cars with 60 or 70k miles on them, they will only fetch £25k IMO. I hope I'm wrong because I really do have a soft spot for the C4S - only time will tell!

So............here we go again - can I have the same answers about the turbo now please.

Simon

Dylan1 · Jun 13, 2007

it will not be facelift for 40k prob x or y reg at best but hey-still a lot of fun[

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will still depreciate tho,like almost all porsche now sadly......except 993`s and gt3 .....etc etc[

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Robertb · Jun 13, 2007

The C4S comes with sports suspension (more or less turbo-spec), Turbo brakes, uprated stereo and electric memory seats as standard.

The 993 S-bodied cars have enjoyed much better residual performance than the standard 993s, I see no reason why the 996s can't do the same. The 4S is so much more than a wide bodied 4- the whole package just 'works' beautifully, to the extent that Evo declared it the best 911 on sale at the time (including Turbo)

A decent Turbo is probably £10k more than a similar miles 4S, and frankly, for me, the 4s is quite fast enough in speed-camera land... I've owned some nutty cars in the past, and the number of times you could safely open the taps with a clear conscience made the experience rather frustrating. That the 4S does 30mpg on a 'normal' run is a bonus, and worth it if only for when I informed the greeno zealot next door that actually my car used less fuel than her Renault Espace!

I really fancied a Seal Grey one- looks great, and they seem to be well liked. I ended up with a Lapis blue one which looks fab with a coat of Zymol.

PSE can be retrofitted for about £1500. Litronics/HIDs are essential, again I had some HIDs fitted for £250. Bose stereo is great, but the standard uprated one is good anyway. Sports seats are fun, but you lose the electric memory function. PCM seems to be in demand, but I am suspicious of Porsche and their tendency to stop supporting things as they did PCM1 (which you will find on a non 'MOST' 2002 4S). My point is, don't worry too much about the options, concentrate on finding a great car that you like, then you can retrofit essential options.

In addition to what you've mentioned, make sure the brakes and the clutch are good. Check for paint repair- I learned a lesson here- check the window seals for evidence of overspray on the edges, maybe even consider borrowing a paint depth gauge to check for consistency.

Rodney Naghar · Jun 13, 2007

I don't think it's a big deal if you get a glovebox fitted/PCM2'd facelift turbo or not. I've recently seen two on Pistonheads asking ~£38k with around 40-50k on the clock. There are many more around the 40k mark, and I'm sure they will take decent offers.

How much lower can turbo prices go in the next few years? £35k? I mean you get one of the best all round supercars in the world for basic Boxster money...lunacy!

hothatch2002 · Jun 13, 2007

I have had a quick look on autotrader and there are a couple of 996 2002/2003 turbo's for £41k to £44k, similar spec and mileages to the C4S that I was looking for, yet only 10% more - seems like a no brainer to me. It's not as if there a people queing up for cars like these, so seller may take offers, after all they have something for sale for a reason, and once someone has made that decision - they want to see it gone.
Maybe a facelift 996 Turbo for £40k could be a possiblity - which is nice.

Richard_Hamilton · Jun 13, 2007

I don't normally comment too much on prices, but.....

The only way to minimise the risk of losing money on a Porsche is to buy one of a few older air-cooled truly iconic models, wrap it in cotton wool, and put it in a warm, dehumidified garage until you want to sell it. A nice 911S, a 2.7 Carrera RS (obviously), or a 993RS perhaps.

IMHO, whatever 'modern' Porsche you buy, you will be facing some depreciation. Reason: they made so many of them. It's just a question of what part of the depreciation curve you catch them on. If you spend £30K on a decent 996 and run it for 2-3 years without piling on too many miles, you might get away with £8-10000 depreciation. Not bad really. I don't think the C4S will be too different, relatively. It may be the most sought after, but they still made plenty of them.

Turbos and GT3s are rarer, hence the depreciation curve is now flatter on early models. (More demand, less availability). Turbos were about £100K new, and GT3s about £85K, and prices are about £45K and £40K respectively for early models. Values will go down, but slower than "˜regular' 996s.

A friend of mine bought one of the first 996 GT2s, thinking they were going to be iconic and he wouldn't lose money. What a mistake that was. He paid £125K, and it is now worth about £60K. It works out to about £12000 per year. The best way to lose a pile of cash is to buy a new one "" any model. Just remember that a 2002 Turbo has lost £55K+ in 5 years.

I would say buy what you want in your price range - use it and enjoy it. You will lose money, but it will be less than you would lose on a brand new Mondeo "" and where would you prefer to park your bum? [

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Just my 2p worth.

Rodney Naghar · Jun 13, 2007

Maybe a facelift 996 Turbo for £40k could be a possiblity - which is nice.

You know it makes sense![

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Keep an eye out on Pistonheads, a lot available there at decent prices with good turnover. The turbo gets a bashing for 'not being a GT3' on that website (stupidly), which may mean you could make even cheekier offers.Above £30-35k you're going to see fewer private buyers that don't need finance, so the sellers will either have to choose between a dealers bid (probably no more than 35k on a 40k turbo) or a private bid....so anywhere in between will probably get you a sale.

Good luck!