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c4s, c2s, c4 or c2?help me please!!!

Paulbarr73

New member
Hi all,
I'm in a bit of a quandry, I've made the decision to buy myself a 993. The problem is, do I save a bit of cash and go for a c2 or c4 and enjoy it, or find a bit of extra cash and get an S model? Do you agree the extra outlay will make it worth more in a couple of years time if I were to sell it? or save a few thousand now and still get a great car without an S on the back or a wide body?
I appreciate the S is a more desirable car, to me and everone else, but is it worth the extra cash? and is 132000 (4s) miles asking for trouble in a private sale, when there is a really nice one at 911 virgin with 92000 miles for £3500 more? remembering that the private sale would probably move on price a bit.
Thanks alot
 
Paul, I don't think you can go wrong with a 993 as long as it has been well looked after. Which model depends on what you are after. I've had my C4S for a couple of months and really can't find fault with it. I was initially concerned about the ride being a bit harsh but this hasn't really been a problem and the handling - especially the cornering is startlingly good. Something to bear in mind is that you might find the wide body of an S model a bit of an issue if you spend much time on narrow lanes.
Good luck
Mike
 
In my humble opinion, the S is a heavy lorry in comparison to the Non-S. Lets not forget that the 993 series do not have any differences in engine sizes (like the 997 for example): it is merely a wider body, lowered 10mm front, 20mm rear, 18 inch cup wheels with 31mm thick spacers. Accerelaration comparable to the 993 but top speed 3mph slower.
weight 993: 1370 kg
993 tiptronic: 1395kg
993 C4 coupe 1420kg
993 c4S 1450

it seems the S is adding 30kg....


Bert
 

I love people's responses to this post - it just shows how views on virtually the same model polarise.

So, here's my opinion to add to the mix.

All 993's are great. Some are (marginally) greater than others and which you feel is better is entirely personal preference. In brief though, I think the following does hold true:

The wide bodied cars look better - the wide hips just add something to the overall aesthetics. IMHO the best looking car Porsche made. For me part of owning the car is how it feels when I drive it and some part of it is how it makes me feel when I open the garage. The wide bodied cars give me a wider grin.

The C4S and 'S' models are dynamically different to each other and both are different again to the narrow bodied cars. Basically the C4S and S are harder rides because of different, lower and hence harder suspension (turbo in the C4S and the sport suspension in the C2S). Many people like the novelty of the C4S package, turbo running gear, turbo Big Red breaks, 4 wheel drive like the turbo and it was therefore more expensive new and felt more exotic.

The C4S has a couple of down sides though. The four wheel drive system, amazing in the day and a huge leap forward over the system in the 964 does make the car heavier and slower (marginal though) but changes the way the car feels. It feels less like a throughbred sports car - take one on a track and you'll feel the difference. To add to the different steering feel (which as with every 4 wheel drive car on the planet is not as good as 2 wheel rear wheel drive feel) the 18" wheels on the C4S are actually Turbo Look and not Turbo alloys. The Turbo Look wheels are not hollow spoked like the Turbo wheels so are heavier than the wheels they copy (fitted as standard to the Turbo) and add to the unsprung wieght.

The C2S drives like a thoroughbred sports car. Nothing I have ever driven (except a Caterham), including fast BMW's, other Porsches (996, 997, 968) feels so much like a pure sports car, on and off the track (though I have never driven a GT3 or RS of any variety). The suspension is the sports option, lowered and harder - yes it is a little hard but IMHO, if you want soft, buy a Land Rover. The wheels in theory were 17" but I have only ever seen one C2S with said wheels, everybody ticked the 18" Turbo wheels as an option - and this makes a big difference because they are the lighter hollow spoke Turbo variety and not the heavier Turbo Look variety on the C4S. Don't get me wrong, the car is perfectly comfortable and anyone who tells you it feels like it will throw you in to a hedge backwards at any moment needs bit more driver tuition - it makes you feel alive, excited at driving the thing. It's a sports car and it feels like a sports car (my 996 C4 felt like a fast bus in comparison).

So, if your emphasis is a little more towards comfort, the C2 may suit. If natural steering feel is not that high up on the agenda, get a C4. If you love the wide body cars but want a tad more comfort than a C2S and steering feel again is not the be all and end all, a C4S could be for you. If you want pure - it has to be a C2S.

Glorious, glorious glorious.

Only my opinion of course - but if there hadn't been a credit crunch I'd still have mine. IF the world ever get's back to normal I'll have another before you can say hollow wheels.

If the world gets better than normal, a 993RS! Now I cmome to think about it, note how all of Porsches most sporty cars are rear wheel drive only (RS', RSR's, Clubsports, GT3's and so on) apart from some odd, though fantastic niches like the (and officianados forgive me if I am wrong) 964 lightened C4 whith variable torque setting controlled in the car (Leichtbau?) and the 959.
 
Well it doesn't take long to get a mass of replies on this subject does it![:D]
I think the c2s would be the ideal one for me. But I'm not going to discount anything else jst because it's not a c2s. I agree, again it's about buying on condition not mileage, (a good thing as mine will be a daily drive and I'm bound to put a truckload on it!) The downside of the c2s IMHO is the lack of the big red brakes, if porsche had only put them on. I know it's only bling, but you don't buy a wide bodied porsche and not want bling!
Thanks for your input guys, keep it coming[;)]
 
If you want pure - it has to be a C2S.

Or a C2, like mine - factory lowered, genuine hollow-spoke 18s, hard-back sports seats etc - a "˜narrow body' (incidentally, I prefer the C2 - it has a more subtle rear to it, but every bit as evocative!)[;)]

But they're all fantastic, anyway[:D]
 
ORIGINAL: Paulbarr73

The downside of the c2s IMHO is the lack of the big red brakes, if porsche had only put them on. I know it's only bling, but you don't buy a wide bodied porsche and not want bling!

It sounds like the "poser value" of the car is the main point of your purchase, so it doesn't really matter what it drives like. The big reds are much better brakes but if you aren't going to use them as intended just paint the 2S calipers red [:)]. Alternatively buy a couple of sets of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENUINE-High-Quality-Red-Brembo-Caliper-Cover_W0QQitemZ120486582937QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item1c0d8f5a99 [:D] [:D] [:D]

For what it's worth, I take the view that buying a car is the same as buying art or furniture for your house, you should buy what you like, not what other people may think or what it may be worth more in a few years time.

 

ORIGINAL: Paulbarr73

Well it doesn't take long to get a mass of replies on this subject does it![:D]
I think the c2s would be the ideal one for me. But I'm not going to discount anything else jst because it's not a c2s. I agree, again it's about buying on condition not mileage, (a good thing as mine will be a daily drive and I'm bound to put a truckload on it!) The downside of the c2s IMHO is the lack of the big red brakes, if porsche had only put them on. I know it's only bling, but you don't buy a wide bodied porsche and not want bling!
Thanks for your input guys, keep it coming[;)]

Well, we're all agreed on one thing, they're all great.

Don't worry about the Big Reds - they must be better otherwise Porsche wouldn't make them but I took my C2S on the track a couple of times and they were fantastic. I did get a little brake fade but just changed the brake fluid for race fluid and no brake fade at all. I am no Lewis Hamilton but I do give it some stick so trust me, you'll not feel the need for Big Red's unless you track the car all the time and then only if you nail it and stay out for quite a lot of laps.

PS If you're in the North, take it to Wayne Schofield of Chip Wizards for a live re-map. You'll be amazed at the difference. In theory another 20 bhp and around 20 lbft shouldn't make that much difference but it does - torque curve swells and the car feels so much quicker. Put another way, my mate in a 450 bhp DB9 was continually humbled by the 993 fully laden on our annual trip to Le Mans.

 
It may seem like the pose value is the main reason for buying, I can assure you it's less that and more a supercar I can drive everyday, and maybe use on a track once in a while. I just prefer the red calipers, I always have, I think they look more in keeping with the sporty image of the car, and if they are better brakes all the better, right?
And as for the future value, I just want to safeguard my investment as much as I can.
 

ORIGINAL: Paulbarr73

Well it doesn't take long to get a mass of replies on this subject does it![:D]
I think the c2s would be the ideal one for me. But I'm not going to discount anything else jst because it's not a c2s. I agree, again it's about buying on condition not mileage, (a good thing as mine will be a daily drive and I'm bound to put a truckload on it!) The downside of the c2s IMHO is the lack of the big red brakes, if porsche had only put them on. I know it's only bling, but you don't buy a wide bodied porsche and not want bling!
Thanks for your input guys, keep it coming[;)]

Good choice on the Carrera S [;)] Fine cars indeed.

As for the brakes the standard ones are brilliant and less expensive to replace. I like the black personally but if you really must have reds it won't cost the earth to have them refurbished in red.
 
When I was buying, I knew I couldnt afford a 993 Turbo but like it had to be the widebodied version for those gorgeous swelled hips... So it had to be the C4S... Yes, everything feels heavier, and possibly marginally slower of the line but as I tend to be very symphatetic with my cars, it was acceptable to me... When funds permit, I will be swapping my Turbo-Look Alloys for a set of 993RS alloys.. But one thing I knew, it had to be a widebodied version ...
 
Just in defence of the C4S - I had a 996 C2 (3.6) before and my 993 wide-body still has more steering feel and tighter handling than the 'purer' car. My advice is to find the best car you can afford.....

Of course - a Turbo is a better bet for re-sale I think - just take a look at Paragon's website just now!
 
All this is a fine discussion - but the reality is you need to locate a great 993. There are not huge numbers around. When I was looking I had a set of hard constraints (must be manual, must be a 4 of some sort (extra traction required for Scotland!)...etc) then some not so hard constraints (Black, mileage under 60K...etc). Then you start waiting and looking and being disappointed with all the rubbish cars out there.

I actually wanted a non-S (as stated above there are some small downsides to the S), but if you are on the fence about this, don't use it as a constraint - just get out and start looking for good cars, if you are not worried whether it's an S or non-S then you will find a car you like sooner.

How much wider actually is an S? I used to know this but now can't find the spec?
 
Well its a fairly easy choice S or not.

Just get yourself down to a showroom that has both - look at both and chances are you will fall for the one with the hips[;)]
However the S cars do command a premium and my advice would be to buy the type of car you enjoy looking at the most.
Above all whichever model condition and history are a must. Also get a PPI Peter Morgans good. Hendon Way Motors has stock for viewing but would not recommend buying from HWM just a place to view the various 993 in the range. [:D]
 
I really am taken with a c4s at 911 virgins, so I think the wide body is going to be the one. Been talking to a guy selling a c2s as well. He's got it at HWM at the mo. So another chat with him and I'll go and have a look next weekend. Just properly convincing myself with a look at a c4 in brighton tomorrow, lets see whether pound notes win out over the gorgeousness of an S with tons of history!
Thanks alot for the input, BTW should I get a car from a dealers inspected before committing, ie 911 virgins, anyone had any bad experiences?
thanks guys
 
Once you have decided on a car, a PPI will pay for itself. You are very likely to buy same car - but a few faults will be found on it which will either knock down the dealer price or get the dealer to fix the things.

Virgin have a good reputation (although they will argue strongly that a PPI is a waste of your time and money - but it's obvious why they'd argue that).
 
Well I think I've made the decision, and going to get a PPI on the c4s, probably the end of this week.
When I went to see it on saturday, it all seemed to be right, especially compared to the 996 c4s I tried. It felt like diving my bmw, I don't want to start a fight but it was just not what I want. I'm hoping all goes well, but anything that does come up in the inspection does give me a bit of negotiating ammo! any tips on that front with the 911 virgins? because they seem to be very very keen to stick to their prices, trouble is an S is a desirable model, I can hear them already...
[:D]
 
Don't forget 911 V read the forums !!

I am sure mileage is not a huge consideration as long as the car has had regular filters and oil changes. Mine has done 172k now and still excellent in every way. A proper independent inspection is always a good thing and a good first list of things to do!! These cars need to be used - they really get stiff and lethargic if left in the garage.

Be fussy about the clutch as they are expensive to replace - £1k Indie and £2k OPC (if it judders on take up in reverse this can be a sign and if the pedal is heavier than you expect this can also be a symptom). They can tend to weep a bit of oil as they get older and this is acceptable but should not be excessive (ie you should not see any oil on the outside of the engine undertray or on the ground where parked) and can often be easily fixed with new rocker cover gaskets. Brakes can be troublesome if the caliper plates are corroded - can cause brake judder. Easily fixed but can be pricey if they can't get the old ones out.

If you get a good one then it will be the best thing you ever did.
 

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