Cam belt & water pump change at OPC... how much !!!!

[Jinxy]

Took my 944 2.7 into Porsche at Hatfield OPC a few weeks ago & they kindly lent me a 63 plate red Cayman 'S' with 6k miles on it whilst they carried out a Cam belt & Balance belt change for me ( That was fun !! , it turns out I needed a new water pump as well & I had a slight oil leak from the front crank seal, so asked them to do it as they were reluctant to do the cam belt without changing the oil seal, picked the car up yesterday........ £1800.52 lighter !!!!! it took them 19.35 hours & labour was £825 !!, the parts needed were:-

1 x cam belt
1 x cam roller
1 x balance belt
1 x balance belt roller
2 x shaft sealing
2 x spacer sleeves
2 x gaskets
1 x crank seal
1 x round crank cr
1 x Alternator belt
1 x narrow v belt
1 x water pump
1 x gasket
8 x hexagon head bolts
2 x tensioning rollers
1 x packet of tyre valves that I needed for a friend.

That hurt, but at least the car had a thorough going over whilst it was there & I now know the belts & pump are good for a few thousand miles, the only report was a slight leak from the rear main crank seal, slight lateral play in the front struts, slight leak from the cam carrier gasket & play in the bottom steering U.J all that can be done over the next few months... just recovering now & nursing a battered credit card !

 

[pauljmcnulty]

That's an incredibly low labour rate, way under the indies around the area!

Parts are high, but the water pump would be a big chunk of that: I can't see them ordering the cheaper ones from abroad.

 

[Jinxy]

Really Paul ? I thought the indies would be cheaper ! water pump was £356.25, the balance belt was £105 !!, not sure what the hourly rate was, I know its cheaper than new cars, Tony

 

[Diver944]

That's only a £42/hr labour rate which is way cheaper than most indies.

I can only imagine they knocked it right down because they know it shouldn't take anywhere near that long to do those jobs. Probably lack of familiarity with the car

 

[PSH]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

That's only a £42/hr labour rate which is way cheaper than most indies.

I can only imagine they knocked it right down because they know it shouldn't take anywhere near that long to do those jobs. Probably lack of familiarity with the car

Funny as I was thinking the same thing Paul, I'd have thought a novice could have done that job in half the time yet alone a trained Porsche mechanic. Water pumps on our cars aren't cheap and the price quoted seems about right from an OPC, there are plenty of tutorials on the web so when it needs doing again might be worth checking them out to see if it's something you feel happy about doing yourself next time it's due Jinxy.

Regards

Pete

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Really Paul ? I thought the indies would be cheaper !

I don't think any indie would be near that price per hour. They also wouldn't take that many hours though!

I think my last belts/pump/seals was about half that at an indoe near Hatfield, but pretty much everything else was over-priced or messed up! []

 

[George Elliott]

I can't see them ordering the cheaper ones from abroad

I would not be surprised if they refitted the old wear-pump

Just a few weeks back an OPC charged for rear brakes and left the old ones on one side of the car

I have experienced hideous body-work from an OPC approved paint shop

At least a good Indie will do what they charge for, I guess thats why they have been so successful.

George
944t

 

[bmnelsc]

Labor rate is almost free by our local standards (Western Canada). I was told today that the new Porsche Center here (Edmonton, AB) introduced a new "classic" labor rate of only C$139 (plus we get a 10% discount as dealer network members) so that is still 76 of yours. You got a great deal! By the way, this new "classic" rate is the same as the well advertised Porsche Indy in town.

Also as per Diver944 - maybe they are charging actual time rather than book rate although this is really not normal. Our Porsche Indy quoted me 1.7 hours to change a castor block in advance of a wheel alignment because the book says 1.7 hours to renew a control arm. They said last time they did it (charged me $28 on top of the alignment which reflects the 15 minutes it takes to change that part while the car is on the alignment rack) I was undercharged for the work. Instead of getting the work they got a letter from me with pages out of the shop manual that demonstrates the castor block can be changed without removing the control arm. I preferred to say their service rep was ignorant rather than calling them on honesty.

And I know - usually castor blocks are changed in pairs but when I discovered I needed a new one - I couldn't wait another two weeks to order some off the internet so I had them replace the one as I assumed I would get the old big rubber one. Turns out Porsche is only supplying the "968 style" castor blocks so instead of having two old style to change at a later date I ended up with one 968 style and one old style.

 

[PSH]

One possibility for the long labour time could be due to sheared bolts/studs when removing the old water pump, this is a pig of a job at the best of times ( as seen in my own engine build thread) but trying to extract them while still on the car would have made life a lot more difficult.

Pete

 

[andy watson]

My belt changes are always carried out by OPC as I have said before, the quoted cost before they start! Is always a lot cheaper than an indie.

Basic servicing or repairs are undertaken by my friendly and very fair local garage or myself.

 

[PAUL RUDDY]

This is a quote I got from our OPC to replace water pump plus minor service, works out at approx £1750, Hartech supplied and fitted a genuine pump plus new belts for approx £850.

"Not the easiest job to quote for as once we have the engine stripped down we tend to find additional seals etc that need replacing, but I will give you a quote based on no additional things being found.

After speaking with our techs the 6 hours that Porsche quote for the job should be achievable, plus an additional hour for oil change & general check round.

So Labour wise we would be looking at £ 787.50 & parts as follows;

Water pump kit ( inc gasket / stat etc ) £ 358.25
Cam belt £ 83.14
Balance belt £ 104.19
Oil filter £ 7.08
Oil ( We would generally use Shell Helix Ultra ) £ 47.50
Coolant ( Approx 4.5 ltrs) £ 36.00

All prices are at retail & Ex VAT. "

 

[Indi9xx]

I think they did adjust the bill for some inexperience, the book time is no where near that many "work units" on the Porsche system, but that does not account for corrosion and assumes that the car is under 5 years old!...

We take about 12 hours to change the belts, waterpump, thermostat, tensioners, rollers and ALL the front engine oil seals, including the ones hidden, such as the clear washers behind the top hat drive sleeves, o-ring on the oil pump drive sleeve, the o-rings behind the balance shaft front housings, cam-diamond etc..

As a comparison, we charge £1200 plus VAT for this, including coolant flush and replacement and that is a fixed price to include getting out the water pump studs/bolts if they snap, as we always replace them.. The price also includes all Genuine parts and we recommend it is done every 8 years regardless of mileage, as the seals in the engine, waterpump and tensioner bearings all begin to degrade after 6 years and will have failed between 8 and 10 years of age.

In fact... It has just occurred to me... This price has not changed in about 10 years, even though the parts have gone up by 30 to 60%... I probably make a loss on these jobs... oh pants..

 

[MrMoots]

Well a local indie on the herts bucks boarder quoted me £1500 excluding the water pump.

I have always OPC Hatfield ok on parts prices, normally cheaper than some Internet specialists.

 

[PSH]

I have to say that I'm totally bemused by the prices quoted here....having seen what's involved myself and knowing it's not rocket science it makes me question why anyone would pay to have it done? Peace of mind I guess.. I am lucky though as I have a son who is probably the best mechanic I've ever known, i'm good but he's in a different league altogether.. yes I know he's my son and I would say that but then so do the local OC of various marques when that get unstuck, especially on electrics, he's been head hunted many times.
When I first got my car I used a very well known independent close to me... they worked on the car a few times doing some big jobs, my son who was a lot younger then wasn't happy with the quality of the work done, often the car came back with more problems than it went in with. Some may remember my story but for those who are new the final straw was when the car went in for all new front seals and pulley's due to a few oil leaks and me wanting the car in top condition,it came back with the front oil seal still leaking but also leaks from both the coolant and steering system, as it happens they had forced the various pipes etc to one side to do the work resulting in me having to pay for a new radiator and steering pipes even if they did except part responsibility and only charged cost.
Needless to say I was on the phone prompt demanding the car was taken back in immediately, this was on a Saturday.. tough I wasn't happy. My son popped in to this indie unannounced a few days later as it was only a stone's throw from his garage, my car was on the ramp being worked on at the time. My son asked the mechanic a few questions as to what he had done and then checked to see if the parts he said had been done were in fact finished... result being that some of the bolts stated as finished could be undone by hand.... the car hasn't been back to any OPC or indie since and nor will it ever be....there are some good indie's out there.. Jon of this parish being perhaps one of the best but by god there are bad ones too.
Back then I wanted to keep the book stamped with official OPC/indie records... I soon gave up on that idea..

As the saying goes if you want a job done properly do it yourself.... these car's aren't difficult to work on..


Pete

 

[TTM]

They are not too difficult to work on... as soon as you have figured out in which of the sometimes many steps to take parts on & off, and after having invested in comprehensive toolsets. This can take some time when you are not someone used to spend weekends in the garage. But with these cars it remains that by the time you can do most of the work yourself, you may have turned into a serious car geek... sigh [>:]

 

[vitesse]

Well I did it myself this last time after making a crankshaft locking plate thinking the funny rattly noise when engine really hot was the waterpump bearing(s)- after 3 goes finally replacing the adjuster pulleys,it was still present & this then baffled the extremely competent indie I have always used for the tricky things where I needed a service stamp or garage hoist-in the end it was the steel sleeve surrounding the OPRV which had worked loose-but that work involved 2/3 visits until it was sorted plus the new OPRV & the oil cooler gasket kit.Expensive-but at least the belt/oil pump change cost me little to balance up.

Parts cost seem horrific--the genuine belts /pulleys cost much much less from ECP-both belts were under £50 LS & pump(not OE) was £265 inc VAT.
This on my wives car which does low mileage so should last a longtime--with her driving,this worry over belt life is negligible-the ones I took off had no cracking or other signs of fatigue after 6 yrs-but wouldn't leave my track car belts that long-that said I've had it nearly 4 yrs now & at last inspection they looked absolutely fine.

This is of course my personal view having worked as an engineer in power transmission where life of components is directly related to number of load cycles & our engines never get that hot that the rubber degenerates over these type of time periods.

 

[supersport]

Having recently watched an OPC man trying to dismantle an air cooled flat six, I just don't think they have the knowledge and hence the long time. I know that one of our members has had his car in and they are not charging full labour hours as they simply don't have the experience to deal with the older cars.

Of course if you are lucky your OPC will have a man around who has been there long enough, but a lot of these guys are long gone.

 

[Hilux]

OPC`s have trained technicians not mechanics - always best to use an experienced independent in my view. Particularly with the fact that not many OPC`s see 944`s.

Most Porsche owners I know wouldnt go near an OPC by choice.

19.5 hrs is a lot of time for that work!

 

[andy watson]

True, 19.5 hrs is an awful long time But.....
What did they quote?

I wouldn't take my car / cars anywhere without a quote for the job first

Would you have a builder or plumber in the house and let them do work without knowing what it was going to cost you?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Would you have a builder or plumber in the house and let them do work without knowing what it was going to cost you?

No.

But.....

Have you EVER had a builder or plumber in the house and it not end up costing more than the estimate? [&:]

I think the reason some indies are refusing to work on 944s is down to the unexpected. We all know that a simple job might be an hour at most, but once you've snapped every bolt, broken every piece of plastic, and discovered half a dozen other things wrong, it can escalate dramatically. JZM's argument was that 944s come in with a fault, they spend an hour stripping things and diagnosing, then the customer falls over at the estimate. They then had to put the car back together for nothing.

Hard to know what to say about main dealers who offer great rates for the older cars. The mark-up on parts is silly, as they are charging the same mark-up as on a new 911, where that's their main source of profit. I agree that they might not have a single member of staff who's ever worked on a 944, but my last indie experience was my car being at the bottom of the heap, and worked on by the apprentice. And, not checked before it was released to me, with glaring faults. []

The moral is, if you have someone you trust to work on the car, keep them as your best friend and pay them double what they ask: it's cheaper in the long-run!