Cargraphic Racing alloys

[bryn_p]

Morning all,

Does anyone have any experience of these wheels for use on the track? I really like the look of them and am considering a set for track days, but a specialist I was talking to the other day said that there had been some problems with them bending when they were first produced. I assume that this has now been addressed by Cargraphic?

Does the extra inch upset the delicate steering of the RS? I see a lot of people use 18"s so I would assume not.

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[johnny senna]

In a previous life my 993 RS had these wheels. They cracked, in quite dramatic style, at the Ring I was told.

Just get the BBS race wheels in aluminum alloy, and get the rims anodysed before you use them. []

 

[bryn_p]

Thanks Johnny - is that the BBS LM wheel or something different?

Does anyone know the weights of a mag cup wheel, an alloy cup wheel, a cargraphic racing 18" wheel and a BBS racing 18" wheel for comparison?

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[johnny senna]

BBS Le Mans and BBS aluminium race wheels are different. I'd have the race wheels every time. See Carnewal site for pics.

 

[RSGulp]

Bryn, the question you've asked is something I think many members would find useful in choosing replacement wheels for their RS.**

I haven't had time to read it in detail but I think the information you're looking for can probably be found in this link.

Porsche Wheels Weights

**Maybe once you've found the specs it would be cool to post a comparison chart so other RS owners share the info. []

 

[Stewart H]

Great link Rich. As I'm in the market for a couple of sets of rims, it's really got me thinking.

 

[bryn_p]

ORIGINAL: RSGulp

Bryn, the question you've asked is something I think many members would find useful in choosing replacement wheels for their RS.**

I haven't had time to read it in detail but I think the information you're looking for can probably be found in this link.

Porsche Wheels Weights

**Maybe once you've found the specs it would be cool to post a comparison chart so other RS owners share the info. []

Great stuff, thanks Rich.

I actually have that page bookmarked from when I was looking for some Speedlines to go on my 993 but I'd completely forgotten about it!

When I get a minute tomorrow I'll try to compile the relative weights and post them up here.

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[bryn_p]

Here they are then...

Wheel Front (Size) Rear (Size)
----------------------------------------------------
Cup 1 (Alloy) 17" 10.6kg (7.5J) 11.8kg (9J)
Cup 1 (Mag) 17" 8.5kg (7.5J) 9.3kg (9J)
Cargraphic 18" 10.4kg (8J) 11.3kg (10J)
BBS LM 18" 10.6kg (8.5J) 11.0kg (10J)

Interestingly almost all of the Speedline 18" alloys weigh more than all of the above. Can't find any data on the weight of BBS Racing alloys I'm afraid, but it looks from the above like either of the 18" options would be a good alternative to alloy Cup 1's. As long as the steering doesn't suffer too much that is - and I've read very different opinions on this.

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[bryn_p]

Does anyone else have anything to add re Cargraphic vs BBS alloy racing wheels before I decide which set to order?

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[rs phil]

i have cargrapics 10 rears and 8 fronts,steering is a bit heavier with 18s,lovely finish on them the outers are anodised or stainless steel i think they dont tarnish with rain or brake dust i have mine a year now and are still like new,although i have been looking at the bbs racing ones also..good bit more expensive, i dont know how much lighter bbs are

 

[oceancarrera]

Excuse me jumping in here with my kettle [] but I went through the same decision a year ago on whether to go with Cargraphics, BBS LMs, or BBS Racing. The BBS Racing wheels are the lightest amongst the 3 and from a pure on-track perspective would be the best. But the quality of BBS wheels are not that great and/or the maintenance required to keep them in good form is higher than the CGs. All the BBS LMs I've seen corrode after about a year and need to be relacquered. The BBS Racing wheels are not suitable for extensive road use, and unless you anodise them (adding to the cost), they will corrode or stain/pit very quickly as they are not lacquered at all. The CGs have a stainless rim which is far more durable, and the CGs also have reinforcement on the inside rim where it is not as supported as on the outside.

As I drive my car on the road, I felt the CGs were a much better compromise towards durability and low maintenance. Weight wise, they are as light as the BBS LMs, so it became a no brainer.

 

[rs phil]

look super on your gt3,was thinking of painting centres of mine black..and was thinking of bbs racing wheels,but you are right all the bbs i have seen have been pitted and corroded,and i find the build quality of my cgs great and very easy to keep clean

 

[RSGulp]

Did you buy the Cargraphics in Germany or from a UK agent?

 

[oceancarrera]

ORIGINAL: RSGulp

Did you buy the Cargraphics in Germany or from a UK agent?

They were bought through Tech9 by the previous owner (he bought them but then sold his Gt3 whilst they were still new in their boxes)

 

[bryn_p]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing your experiences gents.

I had pretty much made my mind up on the Cargraphics but the reply of oceancarrera confirms it.

Cheers,
Bryn.

 

[Church]

Been looking for some replacement wheels for a while - so thanks for all the info so far.

After checking out the Cargraphic Website - It looks like a certain RS owner likes the cargraphics

http://www.cargraphic.de/stepone/data/images/79/3d/00/Bild004_kl.jpg

Price list

http://www.cargraphic.de/stepone/data/downloads/64/07/00/Pricelist_Racing.pdf

A set of 8 x 18 and 10 x 18 works out at approx £2100 + tax + shipping.

Can anyone source these wheels for less as I think I've made my mind up......

 

[pressing]

I personally would not use Cargraphic wheels for track use. I had a very unsatisfactory situation with a set on my 993RS many years ago. They were marketed as 'Racing wheels' at that time and after my problems - which were not resolved - that description was dropped by the UK importer.

I have since used the 3 piece BBS wheels with no issues. After seeing a friend with a 993GT2 hit a curb at the 'ring at 120mph whilst running BBS race wheels and although the outer rim was very bent, the tyre remained inflated (no doubt saving a massive accident) and when BBS x-rayed the magnesium spider it was perfect and re-used, I'd never use anything else.

Paul (Church) drop me an e-mail and I'll give you a contact at BBS Motorsport if you're interested.

 

[oceancarrera]

I think Parr are the official Cargraphic distributors in the UK. Although I've never known Parr to give much of a discount against list on CGs though...

Pressing,
BBS Mags are great on track, but I wouldn't run magnesium wheels on the road. The hassle of having to xray mags for fractures on a regular basis is a PITA and would worry me if I (heaven forbid!) hit a bump/pothole.

 

[pressing]

None of the worry now with mags as all the centres from BBS are aluminium. I do rather like the Manthey/BBS magnesium ones I've got now though.

 

[smallspeed]

Bit of an aside, but when comparing wheel weights do people consider wheel and tyre together? this is the unsprung mass you are trying to minimise not just the weight of the rim, so Im wondering whether the numbers above include "standard" tyres?..

I dont know whether tyres to suit 18x10 wheels are lighter than for 17x9's (ie lower profile but wider) or heavier.. I understand the weight is in the wheel rather than the tyre, but some of the weights are very close.. using the table from above (also shown below) you can see Cup1 17" alloys are close to Cargraphic 18" wheels, however the weight of the tyre might offset that and more..

Cup 1 (Alloy) 17" 10.6kg (7.5J) 11.8kg (9J)
Cargraphic 18" 10.4kg (8J) 11.3kg (10J)

I understand tyre manufacturers design and manufacture varies from model to model, so a toyo R1 with re-enforced sidewall might be heavier than a pzero rosso or a pilot sport cup, but if its a pure weight saving exercise, you might be better off with the smaller dia wheels and fatter tyres..

Ben

PS.. the CG and BBS wheels look fantastic; I saw a black 993 (i think, cant remember) at ragley with bbs wheels - gold centre's, polished rim's - looked amazing!..