Carrera S or 4s? PDK or manual?

[gemini_2821]

Hello everyone, Firstly, I'm a complete neophyte to this site and the Porshe world, being a non Porshe owner. I hope to make my boyhood dreams come true soon with a new 997. I'm looking at either:
Carrera S
Carrera 4S
Manual or PDK transmission. Errm, I must say something about this:
I currently own a 2008 Golf GTI with DSG transmission and a 2007 Audi A4 2.0T with multitronic transmission (which the missus drives). I love the unusual sensation of Audi's stepless transmission though criticized by some quarters (to each his own I say, the Audi has a less sporting character anyway). The DSG however brought rather mixed feelings. Quick and lazy all in one, and heralding a new dawn in automotive technology, its clumsy low speed behavior is increasingly annoying and ultimately I found it a strangely empty feeling not being able to do 'proper' 'shifts myself.

I intend to keep my current cars, my new baby is unlikely to be a daily commute.

As for RWD vs 4WD, the technological, theoretical handling and safety advantages do appeal. But where I live, ice and snow exist only in the freezer, and I do want the experience of traditional 911 handling, so...?

I'm so confused, I almost feel like giving up and buying an M3 instead, lol!
Opinions, anyone? I'd love to hear any comments. Much appreciated, thanks to all!

 

[tscaptain]

Firstly, welcome to the forum![]
I guess the first piece of advice is go try the options and see which you prefer. The second is go try the options and see which you prefer![] I'm sure you will get a whole range of preferences and opinions from forum members but if was my money, and Porsche have had all of that now, I would be looking at C2S with PDK. Have fun choosing though![8D] Oh, and don't buy an M3........

 

[gemini_2821]

Cap, I do admit I'm leaning toward C2S with PDK myself, exactly as you mentioned.

My first Porshe would be a (very) big step for me and I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance in my insecurity. Thanx!

 

[maxtraeger]

If you are not using the car for your daily commute and have felt shortchanged from the DSG and multitronic transmission, I would always opt for the manual experience. After all it is your boyhood dream and what better way to live this out with the shifting of the gears.

The C2S is also excellent in the snow provided you have the manual, as you can control the power easily leaving lot's of other car owners curiously suprised in the recent winter.

Have fun testing"
Max

 

[pwebb]

Hi Gemini

Before you say 'well he would say that anyway' I have owned a 997 C2S manual and the new 997 C2S with pdk. I also have had a good drive in the R8 flappy paddle which I guess is not dissimilar to the Golf DSG box.

Give the pdk a proper test drive and you'll be impressed by how much better it is than the DSG, I feel sure. As for spec, it is as they say down to personal preference, but must haves are pcm with extended nav and sport chrono (launch control is a hoot). I like the sports seats, others prefer the adaptive ones. Lancerlot will tell you to get ceramics but they're expensive.

2WD or 4WD is again your choice. I find the 2WD a little more familiar and lighter to the touch, but then I've had a few over the years. The turbo boys don't have the option!
Nice position to be playing with the Porsche configurator but don't get too carried away with the options list as you'll be amazed how quickly it can add up.

Btw my wife had an Audi A4Cab with the stepless gearbox - briefly - having come from a Boxster she scared herself at a local roundabout where the thing didn't handle as expected, it had to go and was replaced by ... a Boxster S.

 

[Max Twist]

Hi

Manual C2S. More fun on track days, which is the only place where the car will really light up, especially with a sports-exhaust sound track.
Bigger boot as well for those Porsche club trips!
Buy an M3 and you will back again next year to buy the Porsche you always wanted.

At the end of the day, we love them all. Brm Brm

 

[garyw]

I think the PDK is leaps and bound on from the DSG with its well publicised lurchy gear selections at low speeds.
Wilst Porsche were slow to the game on a production car, they did get it sorted first.

You reallly do need to drive a 911 as it is a very different experience to a Golf and many other types of sports cars!!
Some of my friends don't like the light feel from the front of the 911- something the 4S negates a bit...
I enjoy the planted feel from the front of the 4wd cars but do appreciated that the front end and steering can feel a little more muddy than the rear wheel drive car...

Go out and test both- and enjoy it []

garyw

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: gemini_2821

Cap, I do admit I'm leaning toward C2S with PDK myself, exactly as you mentioned.

My first Porshe would be a (very) big step for me and I guess I'm looking for a little reassurance in my insecurity. Thanx!

C2S with PDK definitely the way to go, mate. No question. []

I drove one the other day - its beautifully balanced. []

4WD is OK for turbo because of the extra grunt - but it's heavy and understeary in anything else. []

See http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=494638 for PDK info. Most love it!

Looking forward to hearing your decision.

Regards,

Clive

PS. Welcome. [] PPS. BTW It's Porsche

 

[okellyt]

Gemini

As per most of the previous posters - get an extended drive of C4 vs C2 and mannual vs PDK. You need to be happiest with your chocie irrespective of the accepted wisdom.

Ask the Targa guys, they love them despire the alleged compromised performance and handling - they'll tell you that they can't tell the difference but love the upsides of the slide back roof.

So the proof of the pudding is go for what floats your boat and not what we all say.

Having siad that do get the 24 hour drives if you can, a brief drive does not really give you an insight into what living with one is like.

PDK is superior to DSG and is a fine transmission, it will be faster but I also love the short shift box cars - these cars are all about driver invovlement not necessarilly which is fastest, so it would be a hard one to pick between.

Good luck, welcome to the dark side and let us know what you finally decide upon. What ever the config is it'll be a great car[]

 

[adrian996]

Hi Zahimi.

Your first 911? Mmmm. In my opinion (having owned a few) there are two distinct features of the 'traditional' sports car: Rear wheel drive and a manual gearbox.

The 911 range has been messed about with over the last 40 years or so and now you can get just about any combination of 2WD/4WD/Coupe/Drop top/3.6cc/3.8cc/Turbos....,etc, etc. There are even those who would say that anything water cooled isn't a 'real' 911 and that they stopped making them in 1997 (the last of the 993's)!! But the 911 has moved with the times (thank God) and has become a far more usable car for today's traffic, etc. There's even air conditioning and things to help you park the car!![]

It sounds like you're an automatic fan so the PDK might well suit you. If it has to be a PDK then I would try to hang on until Porsche launch their PDK.2, as Gary says, there have been some well documented 'foibles' with the current 'box. (Do a search on this forum for PDK) Indeed, the original (current) PDK 'box was quoted by Porsche as being unable to deal with the torque that the 997.2 Turbo kicks out - so they've spent the last year or so "beefing-up" the current one so that the engine doesn't rip it to pieces. Worrying, if you ask me.

Try them all if you can. But ask yourself this: you're buying one the most long standing, iconic sports cars in the world - do you really think that an automatic gearbox will give you the involvement of a manual? Tiff Needell and Jason Plato don't seem to think it's a good idea. If your new car is for high-days and holidays (as mine is) I would suggest that you'd prefer to have as much involvement as you can when you do take 'her' out!

For what it's worth here's the opinion of someone who's probably got a tad more experience than most of us on this forum!![]

http://fwd.five.tv/fifth-gear/videos/shoot-outs/porsche-shootout

Hope this helps.

Adrian.

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: okellyt
So the proof of the pudding is go for what floats your boat and not what we all say.

The guy wants an opinion, Thomas, my boy!

Regards,

Clive

 

[okellyt]

Clive

the opinion is he needs to drive them first, then have a discussion.

 

[tscaptain]

I said you would get a whole range of opinions! I wouldn't worry too much about the PDK box being not up to the task though, as mentioned in an earlier post. Have you heard of one breaking? No, me neither. (Crosses fingers and toes, touches wood. etc etc[])

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

I said you would get a whole range of opinions!  I wouldn't worry too much about the PDK box being not up to the task though, as mentioned in an earlier post.  Have you heard of one breaking?  No, me neither. (Crosses fingers and toes, touches wood. etc etc[])

Yep then buy a stipped out C2S Gen 2 short shift with powerkit [] He might hate it but I'd like it[]

 

[lowndes]

Gemini welcome to the world of Porsche....but beware this is not a reversible step, take it and you will be hooked like the rest of us.

Now to your questions. C2S for sure, it is a super car. As to transmission, for the first time in nearly 30 years of Porsche ownership I recently bought a car that was not a manual. It has PDK and it is fantastic. I love it.

My advice to you is buy manual.

I say that because a Porsche manual box is one of the sweetest around and an absolute pleasure to operate and it would be a shame not to have had one. It also establishes a benchmark for PDK. Then when you are [ insert preferred description of self] like some on here you can go to PDK and let it do your thinking for you.

What ever you decide to do enjoy it!

Cheers

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: okellyt

Clive

the opinion is he needs to drive them first, then have a discussion.

No intention to be patronising, old chum. It was a completely tongue in cheek remark as I hoped the smilee would confirm.

I had an accountant once who when I asked what I should do said, "Well on the one hand.... then on the other hand.... but of course it's your choice and it's really up to you ." and I thought, "Well in that case I can save his fee." and sacked him! []

There's no doubt when spending that amount of money, most people will want to explore all the alternatives.

Drinks on me next time OK!

Regards,

Clive

 

[gemini_2821]

Guys, I can't thank you all enough for the forthright and honest replies, and the time and trouble to post your replies. I agree with most of you and leaning heavily toward the C2 for the sake of sporting purity. Many of your replies have strengthened this. The question of manual vs PDK is really about tradition vs technology to me. I reminisce the perfect feeling of flawless (manual) gearchanges, and maxraeger, you have a point there, very much noted. But who can deny the march of technology? Anybody remember black vinyl discs? I do, but today my dad's old Linn Sondek sits in the store rusting away while my Doobie Brothers LPs gather mold in another corner of the house. Sad, isn't it..?

Thanks again to all!

 

[gemini_2821]

BTW guys, I was only joking about the M3!

I may have gone for a modified saloon 15 years ago but not now!

 

[baxster]

I think Im pretty much a minority in that I prefer the way the C4s rides to the 2s. The 4s to me feels more planted and the Gen 2 cars have a different 4wd set up in that its pretty much rear wheel drive untill you really loose the rear and the fronts then catch up and pull you straight. The 2s felt slightly bobby at the front to me and looks wise you cannot beat the fatter rear end.
I drove both PDK and manual and loved the PDK, in the end I was offered a ridiculously good deal on a manual car with only 274 miles on the clock so jumped in. In all honesty I do prefer changing gears and the abilty to heel and toe which I tend to do even when I am driving at normal speeds, not needed I know but I enjoy the involvement of trying to get the revs just right on down changes etc. Had I been offered a PDK then I would have taken that but I would definately miss the manual box, as it stands at the moment I only dream of PDK when I am in stop start traffic.
In summary the PDK is brilliant but you must spec it with sports chrono as without it defaults into lazy mode and changes up too early, but if you enjoy changing gears and dont do alot of stop start driving manual is the way to go.

 

[Rob Edwards]

Gemini
Some very good advice, and I would personally advocate trying 4wd and 2wd variants before deciding.
I looked closely at a Carrera 4Cab with PDK only a short while ago, as I am changing my C2S manual very soon.
The Carrera 4 does have more weight over the front which IMHO does detract slightly from the purity of feedback via the steering. Of course if you live in an environment which is likely to suffer from greasy/icy conditions often enough then the added traction of the Carrera 4 would be an asset in my view.
However, I don't need 4WD and I prefer the more delicate front end feel of the C2S. Plus, for me, the front boot space is robbed a little by the 4wd system (I think around 30L are lost) which doesn't sound a lot, but for our holidays in south of France, that's valuable space, as I don't like leaving luggage on view on the rear seats when parked up.
The manual gearbox I have enjoyed over the past 5 years, and agree that for driver involvment and synergy it takes some beating - nothing quite as satisfying as snicking the gear in while blipping the throttle on downshifts and knowing it's all down to you.
However, I have been seduced by PDK, and it was better than I thought it would be - this will be my first 'auto' Porsche. Don't just take it for a spin around the block, go for a good 50 miles - for me the initial 'just another auto' thought soon evaporated once some full on acceleration changes were made, esp in manual mode. Much faster than I could ever hope to be, and you do retain a great deal of control in manual mode. It does have an annoying habit of changing up into 6th at 30mph when bimbling along, but the trade off is better fuel economy. I will probably leave mine in manual except when in town traffic.
Hence my choice is a C2S Cabrio with PDK (and sport chrono+!).
Just my pennethworth - have fun deciding, as either way you will end up with a fantastic car!
Enjoy.
Rob