Cat D

bmurphy · Sep 3, 2010

Hello all,

Whilst browsing through potential cars I have noticed a number of Cat D vehicles on the market. Aside from the usual checks that need to be made when purchassing such a car I was wondering what percentage below the stardard parkers price guide you should aim to negoitiate. I have searched on the web and the general consensus is 20-30% but this was not based on a Porsche.

Any advice you can give would be much appreciated,

Thanks

jdpef356 · Sep 3, 2010

Steer clear - plenty of non Cat Boxsters should be coming to the market at this time of year[

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williaa68 · Sep 3, 2010

I think it depends on how long you are looking to keep the car for as to whether you would touch a Cat D. If it is a long time, say 5 years, and a thorough independent inspection from somebody like Peter Morgan confirms that the repairs were first class, then I would say a 25% discount to the non Cat D price is fair. As time goes on, the service history, condition etc will come to be as important as the cat D. You would have to be getting a real bargain though.

colinbythesea · Sep 3, 2010

A CAT D car was still running but an insurance company thought it was too expensive to repair using new parts. Inevitably a CAT D car found it's way back onto the road with a cheaper repair. I know of somebody who repaired a CAT D Focus on his drive which had a frontal impact which blew the airbags. He just replaced the bumper, windscreen, and airbags. The airbags were second hand. Then had no checks made on the front suspension. His insurers were happy with this.

For these reasons I would say avoid them. Whatever you might read about the smaller engines being not powerful enough, these are still high performance cars and even a 2.7 goes very quickly around a corner. I am not sure I would want dodgy CAT D suspension under my car during heavy cornering.

Buy an older well looked after one or if you have less money find a nice 944 S2.

pacemaker1000 · Sep 4, 2010

i thought about it when looking recently but decided against it and bought an older pucker one instead
too much potential problems for ownership and selling later
on the other hand my neighbor owns his own body shop and that's all he buys for himself and family but he buys pre-repaired panel damage cars only then repairs them himself. at least this way he knows what he is getting
alternatively find a car where the owner has pictures of the damage before repair

scaramanga · Sep 5, 2010

I think Cat C/B should be avoided but as mentioned above Cat D status can be linked to non-economic repair. Factors that influence this include:
- Market value of vehicle: insurance models can't take into account the specific value of each model but have to use a generic price that may easily underestimate the specific car's value.
- Repair cost: subject to many factors including main dealer vs indie pricing, cost of rental (and importantly if the rental has to be 'equivalent' to the insured car, etc.

Personally, I would consider a Cat D (and have bought in the past) as long as:
- pre-accident photos are available (to see the damage)
- it's possible to speak to the bodyshop or individual that carried out repairs
- the car has a thorough independent inspection.

Fully agree with the comment above that for properly repaired cars, the Cat D stigma should be less of an issue as years go by.
The 20-25% discount vs a non cat-d equivalent.

Just my 2p.

pauljmcnulty · Sep 5, 2010

I'd not hesitate to buy a cat d car, if everything was above board. It can get you a better car for your money if you're careful.

Plenty of cars are being written off now due to the insistance of insurers to only use new parts, and that all the extras like courteousy cars are included. A couple of years ago a perfectly good 944 was written off with only a damaged door, the owner bought it back and put replaced it with a used one, in the right colour, for £40. That will make someone a very nice car at 20% below market price one day.

Not a newer car, where a repair costing tens of £K would be very major, but a Boxster worth less than £10K could be written off with very minor damage. I'd want to see full details of the damage, with pictures, and know that there wasn't enough damage to cause structural issues. And, I'd want to be saving a substantial amount of money on it. As I keep cars long-term, resale isn't the problem it would be for some people. To me it's the same as an unusual colour, you aren't having problems selling if you don't sell it, and if you buy at a low price you aren't losing out if you sell for a low price in the future.

bmurphy · Sep 6, 2010

Thanks all for the advice. I had my last Boxster for 5 years and plan to have the next one for the same so I am not too concerned about re-sale value. I am just suprised at the amount of CAT D cars available. I had never considered looking at one before. I'll be sure to get an independent inspection if I decide to buy one.

GOOFY · Sep 27, 2010

The other day somehow was at a back yard garage where they had a 1yr old BMW z4 convertible - looked absolutley stunning except for the rear which was shunted to the point that everything beyond b pillar was distorted. Asked the mechanic if he was going to pull it all apart and that would be a difficult job becaause of all the inner metalwork linings and cavity. To which he replied, thats no problem, we just cut it out and weld the backend of another BMW z4 which has had frontal damage. Now if you think about this, the body shell of this type of car has metal work of varying thickness, different alloys etc, and someone under the arches with no sophisticated welding equipment,let alone a jig , was going to weld a whole width of car together. There is no way the structural integrity of the car could be the same as as before and in a car capable of 150 mph is a scary thought !

Mark Elder · Sep 28, 2010

Agree with your point, but would that Z4 be a cat D? I thought the whole point of cat D was to say "no damage, write off for admin reasons" eg stolen and recovered after payout etc.

I'm surprised even the above mentioned Focus was cat D, I thought any damage means cat C?

Perhaps standards are slipping...

BartyB · Sep 29, 2010

According to the British Insurance Industry, about 1500 cars are written off in the UK daily which may explain the large number of Cat D cars around.

Doing some digging around, the 6 UK insurance write-off categories are:

Category A - the vehicle must be scrapped and no parts or components can be sold other than for scrap.

Category B - the vehicle must not be used on UK roads again but non-structural and roadworthy parts and components may be recovered for use in other vehicles. Critical components with important safety functions must not be re-used.

Category C - the vehicle is repairable but the parts and labour would exceed the value of the car.

Category D - the vehicle is economically repairable but other factors are involved that cause the insurer to declare the vehicle a write off. Examples include: the replacement car hire is too costly; there may be a long wait for a replacement part to made or be delivered.

Category X - the vehicle is easily repairable and may even be still roadworthy.

Unrecorded - the vehicle damage was not reported to the insurer or the driver was uninsured. The most common example is where a driver has had an accident that was their fault (usually not involving anyone else) but who only has third party insurance cover.

Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about a Cat D car as long as you can see evidence of the damage for yourself (pics or unrepaired). I've bought a couple of Cat D write-offs in the past to use as run-abouts. One of the cars ( Honda Civic) had a slight rear-end shunt resulting in the bumper moulding being distorted and the grazed. Removing, replacing, repainting and retrimming the bumper plus the cost of hiring a replacement car was almost 2 grand all of which put the total cost just £50 over the Glass's value of the car.

All it took was hour's work removing the moulding then heating it up with a hot airgun to remove the ding. After refitting and a bit of scratch remover, there was nothing to show other than what looked like small car park scuffs and certainly nothing to suggest the car had ever been an insurance write off.