Caterham R400 & 993 Targa - What next?

[JamesMcB]

I have recently sold my Caterham R400 which was the best blast around a track and fun road trip, but was as practical as a chocolate teapot, it therefore got little use of the year I owned it. It leaves me with a very nice low mileage 993 targa which I like a lot but feel is comparatively slow and baggy to the caterham. I'm looking for a RHD RS or a GT3, I think that the 993 will be very expensive and maybe no better than the 964RS (only going by road test reports), this leaves a 996GT3 or 964RS. Has anyone gone from fast Caterhams to 964RS / GT3, and also are they a big step forward from a 993?

What sort of prices would I expect to pay and where should I look?

Thanks in advance for your help

James

 

[Rotorhead]

GT3.

Both 964RS and GT3 have a 'caterhamesque' feel, but IMO the GT3 is more useable day to day.

 

[SimonExtreme]

I think that after a Caterham you woukld be disapointed by a GT3. Too big and heavy. Don't get me wrong, they are a good car but after the Caterham and 993, they will just seem BIG. However, after a Caterham, the 964RS will feel very usable. What do I base this on? My brother. He has owned Caterhams for many years, using them as both road and competition cars. He always describes the 964RS as a practical Caterham.

Oh, I nearly forgot. Graham Nearn was telling me only last week about how he thinks modern performnce cars have lost the plot by getting too big and heavy. He actually mentioned Porsche, pointing to the difference between 1970' cars and the cars of today. I pointed out that I owned a 964RS, but before he could comment, his son Simon told him to stop boring people as nobody at the sailing club cared about cars!

 

[JamesMcB]

Certainly the 993 feels quite big and heavy especially compared to the 911SC that I owned for many years. I certainly want lightness and 'feel' from the car. I do think that Oliver is correct in that the GT3 will be more usable but the car will be very much a track and special day car, therefore I want something that always feels special, certainly the idea of a 'practical Caterham' is exciting.

Can anyone advise me on values of RHD 964RS?

 

[Rotorhead]

The only way to know is to try them.

Of course, to judge any car fairly it needs to be a good example, properly set up, on a decent run, in good conditions.

A 911 and a Caterham (mine's an R300) make great companions. Porsche could probably have bought Caterham for VW's toilet roll bill.

Just think what a Porsche engineered Caterham would be like [8D]

 

[jimmyslr]

I've got a Superlight R (just being converted to 1.9 Scholar block and 240+ bhp...), sold my LHD 964 RS last month (owned for a year and a half) and bought a LHD 993 RS Clubsport a few months back. I've driven a 996 GT3 on track too. So, I'm your man!

The Caterham will almost always be the quicker car; the twistier the circuit the faster. The Caterham also has the more benign handling. I found my 964RS a much more challenging car to learn to drive and I only scratched the surface. That makes it a challenge to be enjoyed by the car fiend and I imagine that is the idea/appeal.

The 964RS has beautiful steering. Best in LHD with no power assistance (RHD does have power). It is a lovely thing through which to commuciate with the road. It is very close to a Caterham in concept; it's light, responsive, dives for corners, very much the race car for the road. A RHD car is possibly £50k though, a supply and demand thing. LHD is more like £35k and some would say the true RS!

That being said, I chopped the 964 in for a 993. I borrowed a 993RS for several months and loved the slightly more user friendly handling. It is easier to feel a better driver, with less chance of meeting Armco, in a 993; it's a technology thing with the rear suspension set-up in particular. I got the Clubsport as it's the last of the aircooled road racers.

Onto the GT3... Now, without upsetting a lot of people, it's just not as raw as a 993/964 RS. That makes it further divorced from your Caterham. It's a lovely car, but I see it as an everyday car, something you cruise motorways in on your way to a track day. Some think that mad, but going from a screenless Caterham, screaming to 8000 revs, to a 964RS seemed like the ultimate in comfort. Try for yourself, but I think you might find a GT3 a little too inert/detached. That's what I felt. Clearly it's not like a Mondeo and is a splendid car (and v good value now), but it's no tactile RS.

James

 

[clubsport]

Jimmy...Nail on head! having driven all, owned some of the cars you mentioned I agree with every word []

 

[RSGulp]

 

[JamesMcB]

James, your right about the Caterham's benign handling and speed around a twisty circuit, I had great fun at Brands Hatch and felt totally in control of the car. Its intresting what you say about the 964RS being more tricky than the 993RS, although not surprising its a little upsetting as I cannot afford the 993RS (60K+ right?). The last thing I want from the GT3 is a comfortable car that doesnt quite make it as the ultimate light weight, it sounds like a better version of what I have with the 993 but not what I want.

 

[Guest]

I went from a Superlight R to a 996GT3 Mk 1. Although, of course, the GT3 is a bigger, heavier car - I personally had more fun in it on the track than the Caterham due to two things:

1. The GT3 felt, and was, totally bulletproof (with the exception of the brakes). Whereas in the Caterham I was always aware of the engine being very highly tuned. I didn't have a dry sump (bug mistake) and I hated watching the oil pressure every time I went round a fast corner....

2. I could drive the GT3 to track days in the rain and listen to the stereo.

That said, if I could afford a car almost exclusively for track use, I'd go back to a Caterham....and have a 997 GT3 for the road (or an Aston Vantage...)!

 

[JamesMcB]

Gusto I agree with you ref the drive to the track I had a 3 1/2 nightmare journey home last year from Bedford to SW London, it was a killer in heavy hot traffic after a pouring rain track day! How does the GT3 compare to the Caterham for a fast A / B road blast?

 

[SimonExtreme]

James

Jimmy hit the nail on the head! Go try the cars. BTW, you can get a decent RHD 964RS for about £42k. If it is a special day and trackday car, the aircooled RS's win hands down. So long as you don't get a clubsport, you will really enjoy driving one to and from the trackIt hightens the excitement.

As for speed around a track, Caterham vs RS, it depends on the circuit. At Oulton Park last year, my brother in his Superlight R (dry sump!!) with sticky Avons made all of the RS's look silly around the twisty bits but was a bit of a chicane in the high speed section! I think I was a few seconds down on his times with S-02's but Colin in his special 993RSCS was a couple of seconds faster.

However, my bro brought his car on a trailer while I arived having driven mine 250 miles on business through rain sleet and snow!

 

[Guest]

James
GT3 fantastic on A/B road blast. Dull and uncomfortable on motorway (though obviously not as uncomfortable as a Caterham). IMHO, the danger with the GT3 on the road is that you're always going about 20mph faster than you would in anything else....so strong danger of cameras...as I learnt to my cost.

The other part of the equation is cost/value depreciation, of course. Thrashing around in A GT3 on track or road is a more expensive proposition - in every respect - that doing the same in a Caterham.

 

[JamesMcB]

Having read the various posts and reading the 911 comparison test in EVO issue 36 I feel that the 964RS is going to be closest to the mark. I will however as suggested need to try and find decent examples of both to test drive. Other things that sway me towards it are the old school 911 looks and feel that its likely to give. I've just posted on the 993 forum to try and get a valuation on my 993 targa. Many thanks for all your informative and helpful posts.

James