Cayenne/New ML
- Thread starter tiskev
- Start date
The current ML isn't all that good.
The new one will need better 'on road' dynamics and better overall quality.
However, if it achieves these, it could take a lot of sales from Cayenne because it will be better looking and have the all important diesel options.
In the meantime, the waiting list for an X5 is still longer than for a Cayenne!
The new one will need better 'on road' dynamics and better overall quality.
However, if it achieves these, it could take a lot of sales from Cayenne because it will be better looking and have the all important diesel options.
In the meantime, the waiting list for an X5 is still longer than for a Cayenne!
Michael Downing
New member
All of which will generate lots of interest in the ML.
Then people will visit a Merc dealership and meet the sales staff. All but existing Merc customers will be filtered out at that stage by "salesmen" who (i) regard a test drive as a privelege not a right and (ii) believe that anyone who doesn't arrive in a Merc is just trying it on for a laugh.
90% of those who are left will know what it is like trying to get a Merc serviced and will think again. The remainder are those who would drive any old heap of **** so long as it has a three pointed star on the bonnet.
In other words, existing ML owners.
Then people will visit a Merc dealership and meet the sales staff. All but existing Merc customers will be filtered out at that stage by "salesmen" who (i) regard a test drive as a privelege not a right and (ii) believe that anyone who doesn't arrive in a Merc is just trying it on for a laugh.
90% of those who are left will know what it is like trying to get a Merc serviced and will think again. The remainder are those who would drive any old heap of **** so long as it has a three pointed star on the bonnet.
In other words, existing ML owners.
lee fulford
New member
It still amazes me why peolple buy the Cayenne.....It's uglier than my mother-in-law...I can only asume that it's because you don't actually see the car when you drive it and as long as you park it in the garage there's no need to look at it on the drive...
Pictures that I've seen of the new ML show the car to be looking very agressive.
Lee
Pictures that I've seen of the new ML show the car to be looking very agressive.
Lee
lee fulford
New member
Mr Downing
Can't quite agree with what youre saying...I happen to have close links with our local MB dealer who are curently taking in px an alarming number of 996 and the odd Cayenne against new Mercs.
In addition its interesting to note that BMW sales are losing out big time to MB...In other words there is plenty of conquest business going on and MB's market share is increasing fast.
lee
Can't quite agree with what youre saying...I happen to have close links with our local MB dealer who are curently taking in px an alarming number of 996 and the odd Cayenne against new Mercs.
In addition its interesting to note that BMW sales are losing out big time to MB...In other words there is plenty of conquest business going on and MB's market share is increasing fast.
lee
lee fulford
New member
Tiskev
all I can say is that you must have had a nude glamour model sprawled across the bonnet if you reckon it looked more attractive than normal....[
]
lee
all I can say is that you must have had a nude glamour model sprawled across the bonnet if you reckon it looked more attractive than normal....[
]lee
Michael Downing
New member
Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've certainly found MB dealers to be as I described.
We decided that the A-class was the car she needed and I went to a dealer at the weekend in her old Clio (the p/x). I was completely ignored, despite asking several specific questions. A few days later, I pitch up on my way home from work, this time in a BMW and a suit. Now they are interested in me.
We ordered it for her at the end of 2000 and were given a confirmed delivery date. Then we hear that the 2001 model change means that it will be 3 months late so will arrive when she is 36 weeks pregnant not 20-24 weeks. The car was ordered because in the previous pregnancy, the Clio became impossible to drive after 30 weeks and she needs to ferry no. 1 around. It was made clear to them that delivery date was important but they still agreed to supply a car that they knew they couldn't.
Then there was a warranty fault with the tailgate - it wouldn't open if it was sunny. A problem, as she was then (very) pregnant. Try getting a pushchair out via the folding rear seats in that state. So we book it in. Earliest slot is 2 weeks. I give them chapter & verse, describe the problem in detail, explain she is very pregnant, etc etc, I'll take odd collection times, whatever, but there is no movement. Two weeks wait. No flexibility.
Two weeks later, they call me to say this is a known fault, the part will be here tomorrow. Great says I - shall I pick it up tomorrow then? No, you need to re-book it. Two weeks. WHY, I ask, didn't you think when I described the problem and get the part first? WHY, I ask, don't you have space in your schedule to finish jobs like this? etc etc. No movement. Two weeks.
My wife struggled with that at the late stages of pregnancy because the dealer was useless.
Later, my 5 series gets to 3 years old and I pop in to look at the E class. The 320CDi is the obvious choice so I ask for a test drive - aparently there is a demo car arriving in a week or so. They promise to call. Do they ****. I remind them; "ooops we sold it. There's another one coming. We'll call you". Do they? No, of course not. So I remind them again, repeat performance. Anyway, NINE MONTHS passed before they let me out in an E class. No kidding. And then, it was only because I was passing and I saw an E320CDi on the forecourt with DEMONSTRATOR written on a big sign in the windscreen, not because they bothered to exercise a brain cell.
[Anyway, the E class was hopeless next to the 5 series, so I bought a 3 series. That's another story, though.]
My business partner has just bought a C class. It keeps breaking down - won't start in the mornings. MB can't fix it. Nuff said.
Compare this with BMW and Porsche; I have found their staff to be polite and flexible. I have, before, now, called a BMW dealer to explain that I've just noticed that my foglight is broken but I'm due to borrow a demonstrator in two days time, can they do it then? Of course we can sir. No problem. None of this wait for 2 weeks b******s.
I also spent about 18 months settling on a 996. In this time, I visited about 5 OPCs, all of which were helpful, chatty, co-operative etc.
It can be done. Merc don't, at least not in my experience.
We decided that the A-class was the car she needed and I went to a dealer at the weekend in her old Clio (the p/x). I was completely ignored, despite asking several specific questions. A few days later, I pitch up on my way home from work, this time in a BMW and a suit. Now they are interested in me.
We ordered it for her at the end of 2000 and were given a confirmed delivery date. Then we hear that the 2001 model change means that it will be 3 months late so will arrive when she is 36 weeks pregnant not 20-24 weeks. The car was ordered because in the previous pregnancy, the Clio became impossible to drive after 30 weeks and she needs to ferry no. 1 around. It was made clear to them that delivery date was important but they still agreed to supply a car that they knew they couldn't.
Then there was a warranty fault with the tailgate - it wouldn't open if it was sunny. A problem, as she was then (very) pregnant. Try getting a pushchair out via the folding rear seats in that state. So we book it in. Earliest slot is 2 weeks. I give them chapter & verse, describe the problem in detail, explain she is very pregnant, etc etc, I'll take odd collection times, whatever, but there is no movement. Two weeks wait. No flexibility.
Two weeks later, they call me to say this is a known fault, the part will be here tomorrow. Great says I - shall I pick it up tomorrow then? No, you need to re-book it. Two weeks. WHY, I ask, didn't you think when I described the problem and get the part first? WHY, I ask, don't you have space in your schedule to finish jobs like this? etc etc. No movement. Two weeks.
My wife struggled with that at the late stages of pregnancy because the dealer was useless.
Later, my 5 series gets to 3 years old and I pop in to look at the E class. The 320CDi is the obvious choice so I ask for a test drive - aparently there is a demo car arriving in a week or so. They promise to call. Do they ****. I remind them; "ooops we sold it. There's another one coming. We'll call you". Do they? No, of course not. So I remind them again, repeat performance. Anyway, NINE MONTHS passed before they let me out in an E class. No kidding. And then, it was only because I was passing and I saw an E320CDi on the forecourt with DEMONSTRATOR written on a big sign in the windscreen, not because they bothered to exercise a brain cell.
[Anyway, the E class was hopeless next to the 5 series, so I bought a 3 series. That's another story, though.]
My business partner has just bought a C class. It keeps breaking down - won't start in the mornings. MB can't fix it. Nuff said.
Compare this with BMW and Porsche; I have found their staff to be polite and flexible. I have, before, now, called a BMW dealer to explain that I've just noticed that my foglight is broken but I'm due to borrow a demonstrator in two days time, can they do it then? Of course we can sir. No problem. None of this wait for 2 weeks b******s.
I also spent about 18 months settling on a 996. In this time, I visited about 5 OPCs, all of which were helpful, chatty, co-operative etc.
It can be done. Merc don't, at least not in my experience.
Michael Downing
New member
Fair enough.
But we were talking about whether MB would grab sales from Porsche []. Just a (very) long explanation of why they won't get me to buy an ML...... Or an SL65/SLR for that matter....
But we were talking about whether MB would grab sales from Porsche [
]. Just a (very) long explanation of why they won't get me to buy an ML...... Or an SL65/SLR for that matter....
lee fulford
New member
Think your problem is not isolated to MB. You read on this forum that Porsche dealers are equally as bad but as with MB dealers it's not always the case everwhere otherwise MB and Porsche would not continue to grow their market share.
There has been alot of disruption in the last couple of years with MB dealers changing ownership.
Lee
There has been alot of disruption in the last couple of years with MB dealers changing ownership.
Lee
Michael Downing
New member
Probably not isolated, as you say. I experienced it with MB and didn't with Porsche or BMW, but that's just my story. Everyone has their own. MB are sliding down a number of customer satisfaction studies, though. And I wouldn't buy one now.
Guest
New member
As you say, everyone has their own experiences.
I, too, own an M-B (C43 AMG Estate) and a 1999 996 Carrera 2. I have owned 4 M-B's from new over the last twelve years, and have seen the whole 'ownership experience' change enormously, in that time. I believe this to be, at least in part, due to the constant drive to reduce operating costs, particularly the cost-of-sales. In the early nineties M-B's cheapest models were £20k, there was no discounting and the dealers margins were healthy. Sales targets were realistic and salesmen were allocated sufficent time per prospect to do the job properly. All the prestige manaufacturers have, since, exploited their strong "brand values" and diversified their ranges, generally in a downwards direction. Of course everyone wants a Mercedes or a Porsche! Of course, everyone wants everything for nothing! Go figure.
By the way, despite the fact that my M-B dealer was one of those completely destroyed by the cancellation of ALL the dealer franchises two years ago, and has become an awful 'factory-of-mediocrity', they cannot begin to be as appalling as the THREE BMW dealers that sold, fixed (or rather didn't fix), bought back, re-supplied and still couldn't fix the MINI(s) I bought for my wife a couple of years ago.
I visited my local OPC with a view to replacing the second (replacement) MINI with a Cayenne 'S'. A test drive was organised. No problems. The Cayenne 'S' was good, the Turbo awesome, and both are in a different league to an ML (even the AMG one, IMO). What the Cayenne experience, polite and helpful as it was, made me realise was that prestige dealers all struggle with the same problems of time spent vs revenue - when I first bought the MINI, I parked right outside the BMW dealer in my wife's Jeep Wrangler, walked in and all the salemen just carried on chatting to one another. When I returned later in my AMG there was a scrum, followed by clear dissapointment when I said I was interested in a MINI.
Porsche margins are better (we are led to believe), and so the dealers are allocated more time per prospect, I suspect. In other words, you get-what-you-pay-for!
Anyway, like all good stories, there was a happy ending. I sold the MINI, gave my wife my AMG and bought a 996 for ME. Now, it will be the AMG that gets replaced, with a Cayenne Turbo, when they cost less than a Chateau in Provence!
Unless the ML is REALLY good (which I doubt, frankly).
P.S. Apologies for the ramble, I really should get out more!!
I, too, own an M-B (C43 AMG Estate) and a 1999 996 Carrera 2. I have owned 4 M-B's from new over the last twelve years, and have seen the whole 'ownership experience' change enormously, in that time. I believe this to be, at least in part, due to the constant drive to reduce operating costs, particularly the cost-of-sales. In the early nineties M-B's cheapest models were £20k, there was no discounting and the dealers margins were healthy. Sales targets were realistic and salesmen were allocated sufficent time per prospect to do the job properly. All the prestige manaufacturers have, since, exploited their strong "brand values" and diversified their ranges, generally in a downwards direction. Of course everyone wants a Mercedes or a Porsche! Of course, everyone wants everything for nothing! Go figure.
By the way, despite the fact that my M-B dealer was one of those completely destroyed by the cancellation of ALL the dealer franchises two years ago, and has become an awful 'factory-of-mediocrity', they cannot begin to be as appalling as the THREE BMW dealers that sold, fixed (or rather didn't fix), bought back, re-supplied and still couldn't fix the MINI(s) I bought for my wife a couple of years ago.
I visited my local OPC with a view to replacing the second (replacement) MINI with a Cayenne 'S'. A test drive was organised. No problems. The Cayenne 'S' was good, the Turbo awesome, and both are in a different league to an ML (even the AMG one, IMO). What the Cayenne experience, polite and helpful as it was, made me realise was that prestige dealers all struggle with the same problems of time spent vs revenue - when I first bought the MINI, I parked right outside the BMW dealer in my wife's Jeep Wrangler, walked in and all the salemen just carried on chatting to one another. When I returned later in my AMG there was a scrum, followed by clear dissapointment when I said I was interested in a MINI.
Porsche margins are better (we are led to believe), and so the dealers are allocated more time per prospect, I suspect. In other words, you get-what-you-pay-for!
Anyway, like all good stories, there was a happy ending. I sold the MINI, gave my wife my AMG and bought a 996 for ME. Now, it will be the AMG that gets replaced, with a Cayenne Turbo, when they cost less than a Chateau in Provence!
Unless the ML is REALLY good (which I doubt, frankly).
P.S. Apologies for the ramble, I really should get out more!!
Got to agree, had the C43, good car, got the Cayenne, great car! Assuming the new ML has a AMG version they'll need to raise their game considerably in the handling stakes - and definitely improve the build quality. Mercedes used to have brilliant build quality (I still have a Gwagen from those days) but not anymore.
Just a thought but if people are so 'down' on the Cayenne and its looks, why post on this forum?
Lastly great news to here there will be no oil burning version!
Tony
Just a thought but if people are so 'down' on the Cayenne and its looks, why post on this forum?
Lastly great news to here there will be no oil burning version!
Tony
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