Cayman tuning

[gmcraib]

Looking to get some tuning done to squeeze a bit more power out of the cayman.
Has anybody done this to their car and can report the results?

Have heard/read good things about softronic in US but they are in US! Although the flash is via download.
Their software doesn't work with the 82mm throttle body though, which got me thinking about customability. With a lot of these companies its a pre-programmed flash or chip, is it not better to have something bespoke and set up on your car on a rolling road?
Something like unichip or similar?
Unless its possible for a remote tuner to tweak the softtronic flash (I know they send you an file so presumably somebody that knows what their doing could alter the values - eg if excel file etc)?

Love the carnewal exhaust and following software tune will do the intake plenum + TB, then headers.
Anybody else done these?

 

[smiffy555]

Mine is totally stock and standard I'm afraid, but it would be interesting to read what mods you have / had done and by whom along with increases in performace etc. I do find this part (Cayman) of the forum particularly quiet compared to the Porsche forum on pistonheads - you may get more of a response on there BUT please feed back any findings back on here. Dan.

 

[Motorhead]

I wouldn't think that a DME upgrade is going to give a really significant power increase Graeme: maybe 20bhp/20Nm with perhaps better throttle response but driveability might be affected adversely. A freer flowing exhaust manifold might liberate a little more power too but if you're really serious about extracting more power you'll need to go the turbo route. I think that Autofarm and Parr have had a go at this. Jeff

 

[Motorhead]

ORIGINAL: smiffy555 I do find this part (Cayman) of the forum particularly quiet compared to the Porsche forum on pistonheads - you may get more of a response on there BUT please feed back any findings back on here. Dan.

Unfortunately Dan the Cayman forum is quiet relative to PH but then they only have one forum for all Porsches. As we've seen in my post http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=729177 there are relatively few of us posting here regularly. The US site Planet-9 has a very lively Cayman forum which reflects its popularity there. Jeff

 

[smiffy555]

Hi Jeff, Yes I have seen the few replies in the Cayman section on the topic you posted - still surprises me though considering this is 'THE' club for Porsches! Anyway, I am one of them now (Cayman owner and Club memeber) and will of course contribute if and when I have a valid comment to make - these are few and far between however!! []

 

[Buddy]

Dan, From reading on Planet 9 among other things 1st stage is to upgrade the Plenum followed by exhaust mods then a bespoke chip upgrade set up on rolling road. The chipping should always be the final item in my view as it mainly effects the flexibility. Plenum and exhaust mods will increase the torque. Or how about slotting in a 997 engine?

 

[gmcraib]

Engine swaps and turbo's sound awesome. But expensive. I can't say I haven't thought about it though. I'd maybe do a 3.8 if I have IMS (etc) problems or a turbo if I thought I'd keep the car forever (possibly seeing the values plummet recently with the new 981).

 

[Buddy]

I can see the appeal of getting more power but traffic the way it is there is even less opportunity to use the 295 my CS has now on British roads and there are so many other road users who never appear to check the mirrors and just pull out without a signal, I'll just stick with the std and hope to get some use out of the chrono pack sport mode. You can get sport mode added at the OPC but you wouldn't get the stop watch. Sport mode does give improved throttle response but I see you already have it.

 

[Motorhead]

I agree with that sentiment Kevan. Incidentally, I recall reading an article on one of the US sites - Planet-9 I think - where they had a run-off between a 3.8L Cayman and a 3.4L turbo car. Guess which one triumphed...emphatically? And I see that the US TPC Racing are claiming 460hp for their Cayman S Turbo. Jeff

 

[John H]

I have had my Cayman for 6 years now, and have been a member of the Planet 9 Cayman forum since it started. It was a very busy forum initially, but seems to have gotten quieter recently. If you search back on Planet 9 you should find a wealth of discussion about tuning, most of it from the USA where there is a much bigger market for this stuff. However ... having read all this stuff over the years, my personal conclusion is that it has mostly been about plenums chambers, exhausts and software, and although various claims are made to justify all the bother and expense, I have never been any too convinced about any of it. Reading between the lines, most of it seem to be about achieving a bragging number at high rpm on a rolling road, and I worry that this will be at the expense of real world driveabilty. Porsche are very good at extracting the best from a given engine set up, and do not leave much margin for improvement for the bolt on tuner brigade. One reason why I have left my engine alone. An ex-pat friend in the USA has put a turbo on his Cayman S and is talking about over 500 bhp, but I have no idea what it cost (I'll bet it was plenty though) and I would be wary about the heat issues with an aftermarket installation. If you wanted to know more, I could possibly put you in touch with him, though he a notoriously poor email correspondent (which is why I know so little). If I were looking for more power and a driveable engine, I would be looking at the idea of stripping the engine and rebuilding it with a greater capacity. Hartech, Autofarm and a few others are now quite adept at this "pick and mix" engine recreation, and as they get more used to doing it, prices have become a bit more realistic. This has the advantage that you can address issues like the IMS bearing while you are about it, so you are also building a more reliable engine. A few folk on Planet 9 tried engine swaps, but I never got the feeling that it was easy, or very successful, whereas rebuilding the engine that the car was designed for seems to have less issues, especially around electronic compatibility. I visited Stuttgart some years ago for the factory tour and was fascinated to see how they program each new car. The car is assembled with what is in effect an empty brain. Then a master computer transfers a custom set of code specific to the car which identifies what it is, what engine, what state of tune, plus all the extras it comes with as they are all part of the same bus architecture. Change the engine and you don't just have to deal with the engine code, but the entire car code base. That sounds like a big can of worms to me. Others could no doubt explain this more accurately, (and I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong) but it seems to me that this is why engine swaps are so problematic. I hasten to add that I am no expert, but I have read pretty much all the forum over the years, and this is just a synopsis of what I have picked up.

 

[BrianJ]

And from a recent survey amongst Cayman drivers on Planet 9, most of them do 2-3k miles per year and don't go out in the rain! Though there is a Cayman race series there and such a large inventory of cars that there are a lot more specialist suppliers and modifications done.

 

[Motorhead]

I just found this article from evo 2009: http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/242815/parr_porsche_cayman_s_turbo.html Parr have managed to extract 480bhp/370lbf-ft at the wheels. The cost is £11,240 fully fitted (2009 prices) which sounds quite an attractive proposition if you can pick up a good mid-mileage Cayman S for £20k. I particularly like this description: And you need to know about the sublime noise it makes. At about 3000rpm it starts to howl with a savage intensity and the sound when you lift briskly off the throttle is of air being slashed with a giant meat cleaver. Jeff

 

[dpoynton]

Just my twopence worth but I'm happy to leave my car as the factory intended, benefitting from all the work that went into homologation and various testing requirements. I would not knowingly touch a tweaked car, I would not have confidence that it was reliable. Will you not be materially restricting the potential market for your future sale? D

 

[Motorhead]

I have to say that I agree with you David. Manufacturers invest an enormous amount of man-years developing a car and bringing to market and that effort has to be respected. However, as the cars become cheaper to buy on the secondhand market they often fall into the hands of enthusiasts who like to "experiment" with them without the constraints imposed by warranties, resale values, etc. Just take a look at the very active 944 forum for example. Maybe in twenty years time our own Cayman forum will follow suit. Jeff

 

[mikem]

Perhaps it's a case of extremes, getting 500bhp from a car designed for 295bhp certainly fits with David's comments but manufacturers are severely held back with emission regulations etc. Just look at the differences seen for many years between say a 1980s 911 US vs EU. I'm happy to "tinker" with exhausts, filters maybe a re-map to free up that hidden power but that's it, even then sometimes I wish I hadn't bothered. Point in case trying to fit a K&N air filter last week just couldn't get it into place and it's now back in the box waiting for more time and a better frame of mind[]

 

[Buddy]

I feel that in just a few years the early Cayman S will be sort after by the "tune it up for bragging figures" crowd. Well cared for examples will be what they want just as the 944 turbo is now as they push for more power they can't or won't use. But then, why not? I'm paying the same road tax as for a Lambo, so if I want the same power why shouldn't I have it? The fact is that I wouldn't use it, the government is ripping me off on road tax by allowing cars of the 2CV class to block the roads to stop me actually driving in anything above 4th gear so effecting my economy and hence "earning" even more revenue. I often feel like emigrating anywhere I can just get on and drive!

 

[gmcraib]

You have to watch with the air filter. The gauze types are oil coated and this fouls the MAF, leading to failure. I believe its £150 to replace. A guy at my work bought an air filter but said for the amount he uses his cayman that he'd just swallow the £150 everytime he needed a new MAF. Fortunately he couldn't fit the filter either!! it does say on plan 9 about fitting an air filter and de-snorking but for me that is interefering with the car too much and opening up new problems. I'm not going to go too far, just headers, plenum and software its more about gas flow than bolt on mods. Although I'm not sure what each software does, possibly lean out the mixture?!! not good if true. If I have an engine failure and have to pay to get that fixed then I'd look at rebuilding as it would be more economical. The block is the same as the 911's right? so this would make it easier to increase displacement, by changing the cylinder liners, unless I'm mistaken. I'd love to drive a Cayman turbo as would a lot of people and yes for 30 - 40k (car and upgrade) there's not much better out there for the money. But its a huge step and yes I also wondered about the heat issues, the car was never designed to have a white hot turbo in there and with the position the engine is in its hard enough to get cooling in at best of times. Look at the problems causing engine failures, that is mostly due to heat problems (cooling/oil distribution). Although the TPC kit has an extra radiator that goes to the front, so perhaps this adresses the issue somewhat. But also with such a power hike 200hp!! is the car really man enough for that? What about the drivetrain, transmission etc and other components? Can they really withstand the additional stress? We all say the Cayman chassis is good and some of us say better than the 911. But is it really? And is it good enough to cope with an extra 200hp? Plus consider the way a turbo delivers the power, its fairly sudden - although this depends a lot on the set up, size of turbo etc and boost level. Porsche are (some critics may say were ie - Pre VAG days but another topic) Engineering gods and yes the engine is good. But speaking as an Engineer I would doubt that you ccan't get a little more out of the engine. The Cayman R is proof of that. Not much power but then you'd be foolish to expect to get a lot of power out of a N/A engine without spending a fair bit of cash and also affecting something else (driveability, reliability etc) let alone a well polished engine like what we have. I wasn't sure about getting the Carnewal exhaust but I love it. It totally transforms the car, it sounds like a Porsche should! It doesn't add much power but thats not what its all about. Its how the car feels and it feels great, especially in sport mode. But I think a wee bit more tinkering can hep it breath better. I suppose there is the fact that a future buyer might be put off and I can see why, although its only minor mods (and you can totally return to original config) there is the reliability question and also how much has the car been pushed with these extra mods? But then again we are not buying nissan micra's so we would expect the car to have been 'enjoyed' by previous owners. Just as long it has not been 'thrashed'. But I think you can tell a lot from a car by the condition its in but also its owner. Jeez I can go on a bit, you guys are good at stimulating discussion!!

 

[gmcraib]

ORIGINAL: Buddy I can see the appeal of getting more power but traffic the way it is there is even less opportunity to use the 295 my CS has now on British roads and there are so many other road users who never appear to check the mirrors and just pull out without a signal, I'll just stick with the std and hope to get some use out of the chrono pack sport mode. You can get sport mode added at the OPC but you wouldn't get the stop watch. Sport mode does give improved throttle response but I see you already have it.

Come to Scotland!! Loads of empty roads up here! Plus you can do trackdays etc, although I'd say that is an argument for not increasing power as the car is already under duress. Although more than engine I worry about brakes (PCCB - ouch) then tyres, then engine. You also have to think about crashing I suppose but then with worrying about the other three you are going so slow that is unlikely!

 

[Motorhead]

I'd agree with you regarding messing with the air filter/snorkel Graeme - you're unlikely to gain much there. But if you plan to fit a larger plenum, don't you need to upgrade the throttle body too in order to get the maximum benefit? Coupled with exhaust manifold and DME upgrades you might even see an additional 30-40bhp at the wheels, with a corresponding increase in torque. It might also be useful to look into getting a customised DME upgrade to get the full benfit of the different mods you're proposing where the tuner would optimise the fuelling (with the car on a dyno) to meet your requirements - sounds expensive though.! The core Cayman 3.4 S engine is near-identical to that in the 911, so there's plenty of potential there for increasing the power output without affecting durability significantly but the transaxle might have problems absorbing large torque hikes. I note that the torque generated by the Parr turbo car is significantly lower than that generated by the equivalent 911T of the time (370 vs 501lbf-ft) so presumably they didn't consider it a major problem but they are basically race-oriented, and it's difficult to assess the long-term durabilty for road use with the mod fitted. Personally, I don't think that the Cayman chassis would have any problems handling power hikes with appropriate tweaks to the springs, dampers and anti-roll bars. Remember that the whole of the frontal area up to the A-pillar is identical to that used for the 911 range and the unibody bending and torsional stiffnesses are very similar for both vehicles. The Cayman rear suspension may be simpler than that used in the 911 but I'm sure that it's robust enough to take more power and torque. I agree with your comment about Scottish roads. I have some friends who have a holiday chalet at Ord on the Isle of Skye and I always enjoy the fantastic traffic-free roads once I've turned off the A6 at Dalwhinnie....but always have to be on the lookout for sheep and deer!

 

[Buddy]

Scotland sounds a good driving place and venison available too MMM. I agree Re the desnork and filter really they only effect the intake sound level, plenum is said to be the big restrictor on the Cayman & Cayman S just stepping it up from the Cayman Plenum to the S item on the smaller engines is said to be a big benefit but I have only heard that, so not certain. But it sounds sensible. On the S, changing to a larger after market polished Aluminium item is said to be a big step up but if the plenum is the restrictor then to some extent the upgrading of the throttle body will be unnecessary unless more power is only required in the top end of the rev range but there is a likelihood of poor bottom end flexibillity.