Paul James
New member
I am thinking of taking a trip up to Center Gravity, and was just wondering if anybody has had any experience with them.
If you have, would you reccommend them?
If you have, would you reccommend them?
Center Gravity - Friend or Foe?
- Thread starter Paul James
- Start date
Dave Wilkinson
New member
Paul,
You must have been on another planet for the past couple of years!!! Chris Franklin (THE man at Center Gravity) has been very involved with the Club at a number of events over the past couple of years and has built a HUGE reputation amongst Porsche owners for the exclusive and unique service he provides. Would I recommend him??? ABSOLUTELY!!!
Regards
Dave
You must have been on another planet for the past couple of years!!! Chris Franklin (THE man at Center Gravity) has been very involved with the Club at a number of events over the past couple of years and has built a HUGE reputation amongst Porsche owners for the exclusive and unique service he provides. Would I recommend him??? ABSOLUTELY!!!
Regards
Dave
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Fair enough to ask here, that's what the forum is for. Answer is yes, I've not heard a single complaint. [
]
Paul James
New member
On the strength of this thread, I will definately be taking a trip there! Mabye then my tyres will last longer than 2000 miles when they've fiddled about with the geometry...
Paul
Paul
Totally agree - when i got my GT3 it was set up with very agressive track settings and was almost undrivable. A few hours with Chris and it was a totaly different car, still with an element of track set up but just so controlable now. He is so knowledgable and friendly and a perfectionist. Highly recommended!
Paul James
New member
I'm booked in for 4th July. Should be good, but I'm not looking forward to the 300 mile trip! Sounds like it will be worthwhile though []
Paul
]Paul
I'll write up my experience here so you know what to expect.
Background
My MKII GT3 had a blowout at around 40mph in Decemeber and I hit a curb with my front offside wheel while coming to a halt. This put that wheel's toe angle out (-0.46) making the car steer to the right. Also the car felt floaty under heavy acceleration which progressively got worse at higher speeds. The nose angle was way off (pointing 0.1 degree nose up). This was as a result of the rear dampers sagging as they tend to do over time. The car was a pig to drive, it also bump steered badly over anything but the smoothest of roads, and the back end used to step out under slight acceleration in damp/greasy conditions.
The rear dampers were also leaking fluid so they needed to be refurbed anyway (much cheaper than replacing them at £516.19 each).
The day
I booked the car into Center Gravity on 16th May. Chris had a set of identical dampers in his workshop sent off to Bilstein to be refurbed (they replaced everything bar the shells - Bilstein provide a printout of Force vs Absolute Velocity comparing both refurbed dampers to show how they have matched them very precisely) and ready to replace mine. I asked for a full corner weighting and geo to be done ready for a track tuition at Silverstone GP a few days later and a trip to the IOM the following weekend. Chris first noted down the tyre info (pressures/wear etc)
Fitting the refurbed dampers
My car on the trailer with rear wheels removed
Old nearside rear damper
The next job was to remove the rear dampers ready for replacement with the refurbed items. Chris then had to try and loosen up the spring perches. They are the dirty metal rings you can see above the spring holding it in place to achieve the desired ride height. If these are seized then they either have to be cut out and replaced, or as in my case, the thread was cleaned with an angle grinder with a wire brush attachment and then they were eased off with the help of a special grease spray.
A refurbed damper ready to be refitted
Nearside damper refitted with lots of alusil applied for easy future adjustment.
This was done for both rear dampers and took a good number of hours. The fronts weren't badly seized and could be adjusted in situ.
Chris is very much aware of the criticism that his work takes a long time. With that in mind he runs around like a headless chicken trying to get things done as quickly as possible. I was watching him for the majority of the process (when I wasn't talking to his wonderful and knowledgable wife) and I really don't see how it can be done properly any faster.
Adjusting the Ride Heights
The next step was adjusting the ride heights to a slightly more aggressive than factory setup. This was done by progressively turning the spring perches a number of 'clicks' wth a C-clamp until the correct height was achieved on all four corners. The existing ride heights were 110mm front L/111mm FR and 118 rear L/R. These were adjusted to 103mm fronts and 124mm rear, giving a final nose angle of 0.4 degrees nose down.
Corner Weighting
Now the corner weighting could be adjusted. Corner weighting ensures that the car has an even weight distribution from one side to the other otherwise the heavier side will have more grip when braking and accelerating. This will make the car feel nervous, and in the worst cases will cause loss of traction or wheel lock up.This is done with weights on the driver's seat as it's no use making the car perfectly balanced with no driver!
The spring perches were once again minutely adjusted (ie quarter turns) while the car was sitting level on scale plates until the weight distribution on the diagonals were perfectly matched (ie 50% per diagonal).
1,497kg is the weight of the car with no cage,ceramics, 3/4 full tank of fuel and 80.5kg driver.
That makes the dry weight around 1,321kg.(9l oil + 28l coolant + 3.3l gearbox oil + 47.25l fuel + 1.27l power steering fluid + 0.63l brake fluid + 5.7l windscreen washer fluid)
For the anorkas I weighed a rear ceramic disk and bell on the scales
The Geo
We finally got on to the geo. I wanted an aggressive road setup with 4-5 track days in mind per year running Toyos. I also wanted to avoid the stepping out of the rear end in damp/greasy conditions.
We settled for -2 camber fronts (with -1 being stock) and -1.5 rears (stock). Very simply, more camber gives you more grip while cornering hard but you get more wear on the insides on straights. We left toe front and rear stock as I wasn't ready for anything more aggressive. As my driving abililties increase I can have the cambers increased by turning the dampers through 90 degrees and using shims to get figures over -2.5 dialled in.
This is where the trouble began. As the Beissbarth machine was setup and adjustments were being made it became clear that someone had overtightened the eccentric toe/camber bolts on the rears and they had to be cut off and replaced which took a couple of hours!
I then had the front arb left at 1 notch from full hard and the rear arb moved from 1FFH to 1FF soft (one notch softer) to counter the troubles I had with the rear end under wet conditions.
The test drive
After the geo was finally done, car corner weighted and ride height adjusted we took the car for a test drive. After Chris drove the car for his tests (including going round a roundabout at 28mph!) I drove the car. It was absolutely transformed. It was no longer twitchy, the bump steer was massively decreased,it steered straight and true, it braked straight and true (notwithstanding cambers). There was no floaty feeling at all - under acceleration the nose no longer pointed upwards, the car turned in so sharply and for the first time I felt I was in control, not the other way round. A full printout of everyting was handed to me at the end.
It is only when you drive a properly setup GT3 that you realise what an incredible piece of machinery it really is, I absolutely love the car now, it is scalpel sharp, and was a joy to drive at Silverstone and at the IOM. Chris provides a fantastic service with great value for money especially considering the number of hours it takes to get the job done right, and the job will be done right! Easily the best money you can spend on the car.
At the Silverstone pits
IOM Pits
IOM circuit
Background
My MKII GT3 had a blowout at around 40mph in Decemeber and I hit a curb with my front offside wheel while coming to a halt. This put that wheel's toe angle out (-0.46) making the car steer to the right. Also the car felt floaty under heavy acceleration which progressively got worse at higher speeds. The nose angle was way off (pointing 0.1 degree nose up). This was as a result of the rear dampers sagging as they tend to do over time. The car was a pig to drive, it also bump steered badly over anything but the smoothest of roads, and the back end used to step out under slight acceleration in damp/greasy conditions.
The rear dampers were also leaking fluid so they needed to be refurbed anyway (much cheaper than replacing them at £516.19 each).
The day
I booked the car into Center Gravity on 16th May. Chris had a set of identical dampers in his workshop sent off to Bilstein to be refurbed (they replaced everything bar the shells - Bilstein provide a printout of Force vs Absolute Velocity comparing both refurbed dampers to show how they have matched them very precisely) and ready to replace mine. I asked for a full corner weighting and geo to be done ready for a track tuition at Silverstone GP a few days later and a trip to the IOM the following weekend. Chris first noted down the tyre info (pressures/wear etc)
Fitting the refurbed dampers
My car on the trailer with rear wheels removed
Old nearside rear damper
The next job was to remove the rear dampers ready for replacement with the refurbed items. Chris then had to try and loosen up the spring perches. They are the dirty metal rings you can see above the spring holding it in place to achieve the desired ride height. If these are seized then they either have to be cut out and replaced, or as in my case, the thread was cleaned with an angle grinder with a wire brush attachment and then they were eased off with the help of a special grease spray.
A refurbed damper ready to be refitted
Nearside damper refitted with lots of alusil applied for easy future adjustment.
This was done for both rear dampers and took a good number of hours. The fronts weren't badly seized and could be adjusted in situ.
Chris is very much aware of the criticism that his work takes a long time. With that in mind he runs around like a headless chicken trying to get things done as quickly as possible. I was watching him for the majority of the process (when I wasn't talking to his wonderful and knowledgable wife) and I really don't see how it can be done properly any faster.
Adjusting the Ride Heights
The next step was adjusting the ride heights to a slightly more aggressive than factory setup. This was done by progressively turning the spring perches a number of 'clicks' wth a C-clamp until the correct height was achieved on all four corners. The existing ride heights were 110mm front L/111mm FR and 118 rear L/R. These were adjusted to 103mm fronts and 124mm rear, giving a final nose angle of 0.4 degrees nose down.
Corner Weighting
Now the corner weighting could be adjusted. Corner weighting ensures that the car has an even weight distribution from one side to the other otherwise the heavier side will have more grip when braking and accelerating. This will make the car feel nervous, and in the worst cases will cause loss of traction or wheel lock up.This is done with weights on the driver's seat as it's no use making the car perfectly balanced with no driver!
The spring perches were once again minutely adjusted (ie quarter turns) while the car was sitting level on scale plates until the weight distribution on the diagonals were perfectly matched (ie 50% per diagonal).
1,497kg is the weight of the car with no cage,ceramics, 3/4 full tank of fuel and 80.5kg driver.
That makes the dry weight around 1,321kg.(9l oil + 28l coolant + 3.3l gearbox oil + 47.25l fuel + 1.27l power steering fluid + 0.63l brake fluid + 5.7l windscreen washer fluid)
For the anorkas I weighed a rear ceramic disk and bell on the scales
The Geo
We finally got on to the geo. I wanted an aggressive road setup with 4-5 track days in mind per year running Toyos. I also wanted to avoid the stepping out of the rear end in damp/greasy conditions.
We settled for -2 camber fronts (with -1 being stock) and -1.5 rears (stock). Very simply, more camber gives you more grip while cornering hard but you get more wear on the insides on straights. We left toe front and rear stock as I wasn't ready for anything more aggressive. As my driving abililties increase I can have the cambers increased by turning the dampers through 90 degrees and using shims to get figures over -2.5 dialled in.
This is where the trouble began. As the Beissbarth machine was setup and adjustments were being made it became clear that someone had overtightened the eccentric toe/camber bolts on the rears and they had to be cut off and replaced which took a couple of hours!
I then had the front arb left at 1 notch from full hard and the rear arb moved from 1FFH to 1FF soft (one notch softer) to counter the troubles I had with the rear end under wet conditions.
The test drive
After the geo was finally done, car corner weighted and ride height adjusted we took the car for a test drive. After Chris drove the car for his tests (including going round a roundabout at 28mph!) I drove the car. It was absolutely transformed. It was no longer twitchy, the bump steer was massively decreased,it steered straight and true, it braked straight and true (notwithstanding cambers). There was no floaty feeling at all - under acceleration the nose no longer pointed upwards, the car turned in so sharply and for the first time I felt I was in control, not the other way round. A full printout of everyting was handed to me at the end.
It is only when you drive a properly setup GT3 that you realise what an incredible piece of machinery it really is, I absolutely love the car now, it is scalpel sharp, and was a joy to drive at Silverstone and at the IOM. Chris provides a fantastic service with great value for money especially considering the number of hours it takes to get the job done right, and the job will be done right! Easily the best money you can spend on the car.
At the Silverstone pits
IOM Pits
IOM circuit
ORIGINAL: So Poo
Glad to see someone's GT3 weighs more than mine
Spill the beans!
Chris mentioned you when I was there...in fact every forum name under the sun is his client lol
Think I was 2 kgs lighter than you, I have the full cage, but was only running 30kgs of fuel. wish there was an easy way to get more weight out of the back.
It has been really nice for me to see Chris' reputation grow from when he first started doing GT3s. No one can be perfect, but he goes to such an effort to do his best, you really have to admire him.
He has been to quite a few trackdays with us and has always been a great help while there, just need him to get his own car out a bit more.
It has been really nice for me to see Chris' reputation grow from when he first started doing GT3s. No one can be perfect, but he goes to such an effort to do his best, you really have to admire him.
He has been to quite a few trackdays with us and has always been a great help while there, just need him to get his own car out a bit more.
Paul James
New member
Muffler bypasses would save you 50LBS off of the back end, it's just a question of whether you can stand the noise, and only being able to do 'noisy' races!
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