Check Engine Light, Reduced Power mode :-(

[raykelly]

Well my car was parked up for 4 days at airport, I hop in, start car and it goes like a bag of bottles! Lumpy etc.. etc.. barely responsive to accelerator etc.. Smoke wise, Im not sure as it was dark.
Spent about 40mins starting, stopping and driving around the car park. No difference. As the engine sounded normal with some rev, I assumed it was fuel mixture etc.. I know its not the coil packs because I checked them only 2 months ago and they are like new and I have new spark plugs.

So I decided to drive it home. Car seemed to get better. I stopped off to get some BP Ultimate as that was my original plan, since car was only quarter full. Car went as normal leaving the petrol station. Got home, stopped car and started again and got the check engine light.

Next morning started car and no messages.

Plug Laptop in and I get a P1026 code 'check powertrain' from diagnostics. Some googling and it seems it could be the High Pressure Fuel Pump.

I've done 300miles since Friday and car going like a dream, no hesitation like other people seem to have had with their fuel pump symptoms.

So I am putting it down to bad fuel but......

I have had the high pressure fuel pump replaced in my old BMW and one of it's symptoms for over 12months was that the car cranked more than what I thought was normal. I even changed the battery trying to solve it. However it was only cured when I changed the pump. The BM did show hesitation when hard acceleration whilst going up hills and there was always a funny pumping sound from bulk head that disappeared after replacement.

So... I have always thought my 911 cranked more than what I thought was normal but just put it down to a '911 thing'. Not sure how many cranks, say 3 for example before it starts. With this in my mind I am starting to think that maybe it is the pump and maybe a good idea to change it anyway as I do not want it failing going down the motorway for example.

My car is 2010 with over 45Kmiles (C2 Manual) and it's my daily driver. (my BM had similar mileage when i had to change pump and was registered 2009 so similar manufacturing date as that of my 911)
Im guessing it's BOSCH who make the pumps for both BM and Porsche.

Anyone experience of this pump issue here? I've read quite a bit over the weekend now.
Anyone know where it is located on engine? Found somewhere that it might be beside the water pump. I would go and have a listen for any abnormal sounds coming from it. Standing beside car, it sounds normal.
Also, anyone aware of what the cost is from OPC for replacing it? Found somewhere that pump is circa £400
Anyone know the Part Number?


Cheers!

 

[Lancerlot]

tscaptain here had a HP fuel pump replacement in his Turbo. I'm sure he'll be along with the details soon. The pump is located in the fuel tank and PC replacement is a 4 figure amount.
Regards,
Clive

 

[tscaptain]

The high pressure fuel pump is bolted to the engine, although I'm not sure exactly where, but I do know that when mine was replaced they had to take half the engine out! If the HP fails then your car won't start. They normally run (well, on the turbo anyway) at something around 150 bar (from memory, it may be higher) and my fuel pressure was 6 bar when it failed! I doubt this is something that you could hear either and needs to be looked at on a diagnostic. I'm not sure if the HP pump can partially fail - if so then you may get some reduced power from it but I also doubt it would be intermittent. Cost wise, with all the labour involved in taking the engine to bits, I was told it would be in excess of £2k (and that was back in 2013) but the extended warranty took care of that, of course.[] So, in short, my only suggestion is that you get the fuel pressure looked at on a diagnostic. Trying to diagnose other cars faults on the forum had been a risky business at the best of times, as we know from the faulty alarm thread which, in the end, turned out to be a biscuit wrapper!!
Edit. The HP pump is/was a known issue on the early DFI engines and many have been replaced FOC.

 

[Lancerlot]

Porsche issued a recall notice for replacement of the high-pressure fuel pumps on some 09 & 10 cars in summer of 2011. The official line was concern about the quality of the pumps not being up to scratch on certain cars and they were therefore replaced FOC. Symptoms were bad starting, rough running and reduced power. So it may be worth checking the situation with your car.
Regards,
Clive

 

[raykelly]

Yep, thanks fellas. Looks like more investigation is needed.
I will ring the PC in Belfast and see if my car had this replaced already and if not, what is the cost of replacement. Will also mention the FoC option that some have had and see what their response is. Big evil laugh maybe I know a few good indys who I will ring also.

Will update post.

Thanks,
Ray

 

[raykelly]

Ok, found the location. Seems to be behind the water pump on bottom left of engine rear. So not too bad to get at. Especially when I only replaced all my exhaust bolts to stainless and greased them up, i could get in there in 40mins...thats the only good thing. Might be good to replace water pump when in there... oh and the auxiliary belt.
Reference: https://rennlist.com/foru...emove-and-replace.html

 

[Motorhead]

Ray,

As Clive has said, replacement of the HPFP was the subject of a recall on a number of 09/10 vehicles (it was replaced on my 09 Cayman S which essentially uses the same engine, although I wasn't experiencing any failure syptoms at the time). It would certainly be worth checking whether or not it was replaced on your car.

As you've found out, the pump's located on the bottom L/H corner at the front of the engine (behind my backside on the Cayman; L/H rear corner on your 911...since your engine's the wrong way round..!)

Hope you get it fixed quickly.

Jeff

 

[tscaptain]

Ah yes, it was all the extra turbo pipework that makes it harder to get at on some models.....[]

 

[raykelly]

Ive run a diagnosis via obd and have the freeze frame data too. So when i have a read through that I will post it.

Drove the car today and purring like a kitten.

 

[RCS]

Had HPFP failure on a 2010 C2S. Car was bought from an OPC, and had no outstanding recalls showing. Always started first turn of key until one day lots of churning and no starting. It did start eventually but was a real bag of nails and wouldn't tick over. Nothing prior to that regarding starting or engine running. Had the Porsche Warranty so fixed under that.

So not sure if ours was subject to the original HPFP recall, seem to think it might have been just after from my research, but either way the symptoms we had do not fit with yours, ours certainly did not sound anywhere near normal, and was undriveable.

 

[raykelly]

Hi,
Well i think it was fuel for sure. Driven car hard past few days with different fuel and my baby is going great.

I will still keep an eye on it though.

Rang opc today and my car was not part of that recall for the hpfp. It did get a clutch pedal switch replaced in 2012.

Good news!! is the cost for changing the hpfp is about £800. So similar to what my old Bm was. Not over the 2k like the Turbo, phew! not sweating anymore ??

 

[STiG911]

Hmm. If your car was left outside in damp conditions (or even under cover but near an exposed section of wall) I'd have called Coil Packs first. Even if they're new damp can affect them if a car is left in the 'right' conditions for a few days, but once warmed through it clears up. It's happened to mine once before...

 

[raykelly]

Hmm. If your car was left outside in damp conditions (or even under cover but near an exposed section of wall) I'd have called Coil Packs first. Even if they're new damp can affect them if a car is left in the 'right' conditions for a few days, but once warmed through it clears up. It's happened to mine once before...

Hi you know what... the car was out in damp conditions and I always have it in carport at home. It was parked by a low wall with a hedge. I think it was quite humid here that week also and wet (as usual). You think maybe that was it. The ECU reading told me there were 6 misfires in total over all pots except for one. The coils are pretty well concealed though. The connector into them is surely resistant to this kind of thing and the end by the plugs is completely covered. Very interesting if this is the case alright. You could be right! As the car is going great since!

 

[Timbo2]

Hmm. If your car was left outside in damp conditions (or even under cover but near an exposed section of wall) I'd have called Coil Packs first. Even if they're new damp can affect them if a car is left in the 'right' conditions for a few days, but once warmed through it clears up. It's happened to mine once before...

This is exactly what I was thinking, I had an issue back when it was cold and wet, started the car it ran normally then after about a mile started to misfire. Parked up, did some shopping, came back and started up and ran fine ever since. I put it down to condensation while parked up. Having looked at it underneath on a number of occasions during that cold damp spell it was pretty wet under there, and that's in a garage. Thought about sticking a 50w lamp under the engine to keep the damp off.

 

[STiG911]

Hmm. If your car was left outside in damp conditions (or even under cover but near an exposed section of wall) I'd have called Coil Packs first. Even if they're new damp can affect them if a car is left in the 'right' conditions for a few days, but once warmed through it clears up. It's happened to mine once before...

Hi you know what... the car was out in damp conditions and I always have it in carport at home. It was parked by a low wall with a hedge. I think it was quite humid here that week also and wet (as usual). You think maybe that was it. The ECU reading told me there were 6 misfires in total over all pots except for one. The coils are pretty well concealed though. The connector into them is surely resistant to this kind of thing and the end by the plugs is completely covered. Very interesting if this is the case alright. You could be right! As the car is going great since!

Glad to hear it's running fine since, but I reckon we've cracked it. Bear in mind that while the packs are bolted into place and the plug connectors have seals, moisture can still affect them due to water running in from the vents in the engine cover as well as any ambient moisture in the air, when left for even a few days in the open.

 

[raykelly]

Yeah car going great!
Wonder, the next time I replace my plugs would I use some displacement grease around the rubber seal and between the coil and head. Di-Electric Grease would be the best probably for that. It would ensure no moisture would get in. Not conduct anything and not mess the electrics... I think
What about some ACF-50 around the connectors at top of coil to displace moisture?

 

[raykelly]

Update: I left the car over the weekend just to see would the problem arise again. Yes, it did :-( Car going great since the last incident. Used it every day. Then I leave it Saturday and Sunday, start it today and back to same problem. I swear there is an extra ticking noise that is quite possibly coming from the HighPressure fuel pump....
Some figures today...

the 'Fuel Rail Pressure' when idling sits around 500kpa
and 'Fuel Level Input' when idling sits around 50%...
(Similar to when it first happened)
Today after I got the car going a bit better, after a 2 mile run in limp mode
the 'Fuel Rail Pressure' when idling sits around 13810kpa
and 'Fuel Level Input' when idling sits around 56.1%...

However, last week when the car was going normal again after the first occurrence i got these figures when idling...
the 'Fuel Rail Pressure' when idling sits around 4360kpa
and 'Fuel Level Input' when idling sits around 99.6%...

Today I cleared the fault code and when the CEL came up again I got a pending code 'P1021 Injector cylinder 2 shorting to ground' but once cleared the P1026 is the only reoccurring one. It did make me think is it an injector? would this cause things to mess up including misfires over 4 banks? Doubt it, but the Fuel Level Input figures above may say something different if that. Also, would an injector tick if bad?

Theres plenty of fuel in the tank too. Over half full.

Anyway there's my update.

 

[raykelly]

Well today I watched my car go to Porsche on a transporter. []
Hopefully it will be easily fixed.
stay tuned!

 

[raykelly]

Got word today that it is the High Pressure Fuel Pump. Hopefully have car back by Thursday.

 

[Ianstewartshouse1]

Great see you Saturday then?