Clutch Change

[Frenchy]

Okay Matey's first things first..................Happy and enjoyable new year to you all.
A good mate has his own garage business and runs a daily S2, He gets a few Porsches in for various jobs, a 944 has recently landed and needs a new clutch he is okay about taking out the gearbox to fit but the price will of course be handed on to the customer, 16 hours quoted is the guide has any one any shortcuts to clutch changes without the need for gearbox removal ?

 

[robwright]

Unfortunately there are none. I would also quote 20 hours. 24 hours for a turbo.

 

[Elliot]

Cut hole in spare wheel well and leave gearbox attached and a slide torque tube and gearbox back in one Only joking - but have seen it done on a track car

 

[George Elliott]

Remove engine [] but seriously, I think you kinda know the answer to your question and Best Wishes for 2015 to all George 944t

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Not seen any suggestions in 7 years.....

 

[Frenchy]

Cheers fellas, customer is going to get the bill then, but TBH Marks hourly rates are very reasonable and he loves woeking on them.............MASOCHIST ! He is getting everything form 924's to 997's on the ramp nowadays, and i know for sure he will be doing a a good job or better than most "specialist" or OPC's He needs to up his rates !! [] sEEMS TO BE GETTING A FE W

 

[zcacogp]

If it's any help, these were my comments after I had done the job a few years back. https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.asp?m=435928&mpage=1&key=clutch%2Cchange&#435928 You can get the gearbox back far enough if you stove in the front side of the spare wheel well but it's a botch par excellence and really not to be recommended. However, for a garage, I'd have thought it is quite a good job to have on the books; it's a pretty simple job (just very long), so you could set an apprentice to work on it for a good few hours, pay him £8/hour and charge the customer ten times that. Oli.

 

[Frenchy]

Cheers Oli, he is one man band, mates (me) get drafted in for heavy buggers !

 

[H3 BUF]

Rough labour costs??

 

[Frenchy]

Who has had a clutch change and how much were you charged ?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I've rearely, if ever, heard of a garage doing it for much under a grand. Around £500 for the parts, plus labour and VAT, it's hard to see it being possible for much under that. Labour rates around me vary from £56 per hour at my "backstreet" garage who do the van, to £65 at the local Porsche specialist. Both plus 20%, of course. I have no idea why so many hours quoted though, or is the turbo three or four times the work? I've certainly not heard of it taking a day, let alone 16 or 20 hours, just to do the clutch? My guide has always been the great mobile indie I used to use. He did Andy Mais' S2 clutch on the roadside, 5 hours start to finish. That would be less on a ramp, of course: so maybe 4 hours. I understand that some garages quote high in case things don't come apart, but 6 or 8 hours up in the air, in the dry, with Radio 2 playing, would be stretching it if they do the job regularly and know 944s inside out!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty My guide has always been the great mobile indie I used to use. He did Andy Mais' S2 clutch on the roadside, 5 hours start to finish. That would be less on a ramp, of course: so maybe 4 hours.

That has been quoted on here before and is exceptionally quick. If I hadn't heard it from reliable sources, I'd be calling 'foul'. Seriously - I've done the job myself and, while no part of it is hard, it's a big 'ol chunk of work. Oli.

 

[robwright]

Exhaust, transaxle, crossover for turbos (inlet manifold for 1 piece crossover) torque tube to name but a few parts to remove. It can't even be dismantled in that time let alone be reassembled as well.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

That has been quoted on here before and is exceptionally quick

I guess it's largely about experience? I've used two mobile specialists and two workshop-based indies, and they've never suggested a clutch is more than a day in the worst-case scenario for them. So, we're talking 5-8 hours? Ken Tolfree was factory trained on 944s, and worked his whole life on them. He retired (damn him [&:]) about 8 years ago so he must have had 40-plus years on Porsches, and worked on the transaxle cars since they were conceived. I would have to struggle to reconcile, however, any full-time professional mechanic, let alone a Porsche specialist, with a fully-equipped workshop and all the right tools to hand, not being able to match his "normal" time for a job at the roadside? Up on a ramp, with all the gear, it's a world apart from us trying to find a metric spanner with the hand that's not holding the cup of tea, whilst browsing Clarks and posting here...[] He removed door cards in under a minute, as I saw him do myself. I suppose a lot of it is having all the right tools in your hand before you go in, it's experience again. What you pay an indie for, but that's a whole argument in itself!

 

[chrisg]

The biggest issue ANY mechanic will face when changing a 944 clutch is the state of the nuts/bolts/ threads etc. By default, if a 944 needs a new clutch the likelihood of the various parts having been undo recently (ie last 3yrs) is slim.... And most will have accrued years/decades of road crud/ corrosion/ stuck fastness Rob is spot on with the turbo additional work - not just the extra parts but the heat affect on these and ACCESS. As with all things there is ONLY so fast you can go which is rate limited by experience, access etc. Having a ramp and full workshop facilities will significantly reduce the labour time, particularly air tools. Not just the speed but also access/ removal of rusted stuff without shearing = rattle gun to the fore ! For me as 'weekend warrior' in the garage (but without a pit or ramp) even though my garage is reasonably well equipped, just getting the car up in the air, stable and safe to work on takes the best part of 40mins faffing with wood/ jacks etc. IMHO whilst one can 'quote' or estimate the time for a job, until you're into it and encountered every issue you just never know how long it will take !

 

[edh]

When we did my engine swap, it took Chris a long time to get the clutch fork shaft out - it really was stuck fast! We also chewed up a couple of the clutch (or was it ring gear?) bolts so had to drill them out One of the long bolts on my gearbox mount was completely seized - I ended up drilling that one out as well [] Stuff like that can take you ages..

 

[pauljmcnulty]

RPM quote £1,164.95 for a turbo clutch, £1,030.00 for S2 and £1,014.95 for a Lux. All plus VAT. Doing a back-of-a-fag-packet calculation, I make that about 7 hours labour on the S2/lux, 9 on the turbo. As with all fixed-price options I'd guess they price it for worst-case?

 

[Paul190H]

Out of curiosity and from a novice point of view, anyone done it the other way around I.E, removed the engine on say an S2 to do the clutch?

 

[tref]

I have done it both ways on a lux... Believe you me, it is a lot easier/quicker to drop the box. I have also taken an engine out through the top rather than dropping it out, again, it is a lot quicker and easier to drop the engine than lift it out... It is all possible... it is just that it takes so long to take all the other bits off to make it possible, that you may as well have done it "the hard way" in the first place.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: Paul190H Out of curiosity and from a novice point of view, anyone done it the other way around I.E, removed the engine on say an S2 to do the clutch?

My S2 had the clutch changed this way, only because the engine was scrap in it.