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cold start problem

gti69

New member
Hi guys, I hope you will be able to help me or point in the right direction.

Where do I start... I bought a 1984 944 at the end of August this year as a non starter. It was said that this must be something to do with the immobiliser - luckly enough that was the issue - the fuse on the immo box was gone. As soon as I have replaced it the car started! That was great ... I thought. So I decided to take the car for the MOT (as it the old one run out before I got it) to see what needs to be done. On the way to MOT station I have noticed a big fuel leak... it turned out that the fuel pipes close the the back of the car have cordoded. I have cut them out and replaced the rusty bits with rubber fuel lines. Took the car for the MOT. It needed welding and some other bits and bobs like tie rod ends etc. During the test it just died at wouldnt start at all. I have figured out that the connectors for the cranks and engine speed sensor were loose - that was fixed and the car started again. But then every time I tried to start it when cold it was just getting worse.

Situation now: Car wont start when cold unless you use easy start. Then after a few times it will eventually go and when warmed up will run fine.

What I have done: Replaced ignition leads, rotor arm and distributor cap. Replaced spark plugs (although as I have found out the ones in the car were fairly new).

I want to replace the fuel filter tomorrow to see if it kicks in but I doubt it. I have checked all of the old posts on the forum but I still dont know which way to go and what to check.

It looks like the car is not getting enough fuel as it does not start unless you spray in easy start... I have seen some posts about the pressure regulator - where exatly is that located? Between fuel pump and the filter?
I have seen posts about too low voltage on the injectors - what should it be? 12V - and good ground? How can I check ground? Can I just wire it to the battery temporarly to see if it helps? With the fuel pump relay - I have taken off the plastic cover and tried to run it constantly by manualy enabling it (pressed two bits by fingers and it runs) but the car still wont start. Some say that bad ground could cause that - bad ground to the ECU - the question is - where is the ecu exactly located on 944?

I have also red about the cold air sensor - if unplugged the car should start fine when cold - but it doesnt.

Another article on clarksgarage and on wilk website tells to test the airflow meter but I havent done it yet.

I would apprecieate any ideas and advice on where should I start. The car has been sitting in my mates garage for the last month and I need to remove it tomorrow. Its the last day I can do something in a friendly (not freezing/wet) environment.

Looking foreard to get some responses.

Cheers!

Tom
 
On a 20+ years old car It could be a lot of things and it could be more than one thing but the cold starting problem could be the DME temperature sensor, a broken (shorted) sensor would make the car think the engine is warm when it wasn't. Check the condition of the engine bay low tension wiring for damage. Good luck with your project [:D]
 
the early cars do not have a seperate fuel injector to supply extra fuel when cold starting. The pre 85.5 944 gets increased fuel delivery when the engine is cold for 20 seconds or so and it is controlled by the ECU (engine management unit) which increases the pulse rate to the injectors. From your description it sounds like either your injectors are sticky from lack of use or one or more of the injectors are not flowing fuel correctly or the ECU on your car is not registering the fact that the engine is cold because it is being fed faulty information. It is not a blocked fuel filter is it otherwise the car wouldn't run at all. It is far more likely to be blocked micro-filters in the fuel injectors. There are other sensors and components that communicate with the ECU and they will need checking also. Two main ones are the AFM (air flow meter ) and AAV (auxillary air valve) Clarkes garage workshop manual has some brilliant guides on testing and repairing these sensors. because the car runs ok when warmed up I would dismiss the ignition system initially. You could spend a lot of money needlessly and not resolve the problem. I would advise you not fit a new fuel pump and filter before you have checked the fuel pressure and fuel flow and fuel pressure leak down All easy DIY jobs and will tell you unequivacably whether your engine is receiving sufficient fuel.Just search for no start on this forum. Alternatively crank the engine for 30 seconds then check your plugs for fuel ! that will tell you if your injectors are working or not My guess is engine temperature sensor (thermistor) or AFM or sticky injectors or possibly your fuel system is losing pressure ie FPR valve or fuel pump non return valve
 
My guess is engine temperature sensor (thermistor) or AFM or sticky injectors or possibly your fuel system is losing pressure ie FPR valve or fuel pump non return valve
Thanks for your answer Nick. I guess by temperature sensor you mean the blue sensor on the front block of the engine? I have red that if you disconnect it completly the car should start if it is faulty. With rgeards to the FPR and fuel pump non return valve -would you be able toa dvise where are they located? Cheers, Tom
 
Hi Tom there are two coolant temperature sensors on the 944 . One is in the radiator to control the fan the other is I believe in the front of the cylinder head on your model. It will look like the rad temp sensor and will have a 2x pin electrical connector. They are cheap and easy to replace and because their operation is so cruicial to good starting and running it would be a good idea to replace it anyway . The FPR is a sprung non return valve on the fuel rail (cam cover) it maintains approc 2.5Bar of fuel pressure on early cars . (The pressure is what forces the fuel out of your injectors when they are electrically pulsed by the ECU.) When the pressure exceeds 2.5 Bar the valve opens and allows excess fuel back to the fuel tank therby reducing the pressure in the fuel system.If they fail they either allow fuel pressure to fall too low or climb too high for the injectors to function properly. The non return valve (NRV) in the fuel pump also maintains the pressure in the fuel system . As the pump pumps fuel through the NRV the sprung valve continually re-seats and keeps the pressure up . They rarely seem to fail and its not worth ripping the pump out before testing the pressure in the fuel system first. Testing the fuel pressure and leak down test and fuel delivery tests are very easy to do and takes half an hour .It will tell you if there is anything wrong with your pump, fuel filter, non return valve, fuel pressure relief valve and fuel pipework .It will also show up leaking injectors
 
Hi Nick, Thanlks a lot for your post. I am thinking that it might be something to do with the fuel pressure after trying various things. I would like to check the fuel pressure at the end of the fuel rail but I need a gauge for that. I was looking on ebay for the one that would fit - I guess it would have to have the metric end so I can attach it to it. Would you be able to provide me with a link to a fuel pressure gauge that I should acquire in order to get some testing done? I am not sure which one should I go for... Your answer is much apprecieated. Cheers, Tom
 
There's one here: http://www.promaxmotorsport.co.uk/products/39-fuel-rail-gauge-944-25-models-white-face-red-needle.aspx
 
ORIGINAL: gti69 Hi Nick, Thanlks a lot for your post. I am thinking that it might be something to do with the fuel pressure after trying various things. I would like to check the fuel pressure at the end of the fuel rail but I need a gauge for that. I was looking on ebay for the one that would fit - I guess it would have to have the metric end so I can attach it to it. Would you be able to provide me with a link to a fuel pressure gauge that I should acquire in order to get some testing done? I am not sure which one should I go for... Your answer is much apprecieated. Cheers, Tom
yes it doesn't need to be anything fancy if it is just used for testing purposes. I believe even an old fashioned tyre air pressure guage can be used if it reads up to 3 Bar I bought a cheap £10.00 guage from ebay . make sure the engine is stone cold before doing this you don't want your exhaust to ignite hot fuel vapour Simply remove the large threaded nut from the end of the fuel rail . ( take care as the fuel will be at high pressure if you have recently turned the ignition or cranked the engine so cover with a towel whilst you undo the nut. be ready to mop up a bit of spilt fuel.make sure you do not lose the large ball bearing inside the nut which is your seal! Cut a short piece of garden hose and push fitted it over the threaded spigot where the nut was removed. (you could use a jubilee clip to fix it if it is loose, I didn't need to but its important there are no leaks . Then push the other end over the spigot of the guage again using a jubilee clip if necessary. You are ready to test. Turn the ignition on you should see some increase in pressure as the pump briefly pumps and then turns off again Start and run the engine. Check the pressure against the spec for your car. Then switch the engine off and time how long it takes for the pressure to drop . It should still be holding about 2 Bar after 30 minutes I think but you'll need to check your manual. Lastly whilst you have the hose on the test spigot remove the guage and put the hose into a 2lt clear plastic coke bottle. Remove the DME relay and connect terminals 87 and 87b with terminal 30.(ignition off) Your pump will immediately pump continuously so be ready . let it pump for 15 seconds and pull the 3x way bypass out . Muliply the quantity of fuel you have by 4x and you'll have the fuel flow rate of the pump in lts per minute . use wifes measuring jug this is the one I used [link=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-PRESSURE-GAUGE-FILTER-KING-REGULATOR-CATERHAM-7-/150514110483?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230b571013]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FUEL-PRESSURE-GAUGE-FILTER-KING-REGULATOR-CATERHAM-7-/150514110483?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item230b571013[/link] but these would probably do just as well. [link=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vacuum-Fuel-Pump-Pressure-Test-Gauge-Set-/320608562831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aa5c26e8f]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vacuum-Fuel-Pump-Pressure-Test-Gauge-Set-/320608562831?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4aa5c26e8f[/link] [link=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Kit-100-psi-0-7Barg-/180589360165?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a0bf6f425]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-Pressure-Gauge-Kit-100-psi-0-7Barg-/180589360165?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a0bf6f425[/link]
 
It would be a good investment to have your injectors cleaned and tested by a specialist like these [link=http://www.tveuk.com/]http://www.tveuk.com/[/link] If the car runs well when warm then it will be your cold start mechanism that is faulty. Forgive me but I am helping several owners across 3x different 944 forums and it is easy to lose track. If your car is the early non-oval dash you will not have a seperate cold start injector . Your car will have fuel enrichment for the first 20 seconds of running from cold . This is effectively controlled by the ECU but is set by the information that the ECU receives from the coolant temperature switch (thermistor) this temperature controlled electical switch is usually fitted to the cylinder head . As soon as the engine reaches reasonable operating temperature the coolant temperature sensor tells the ECU to stop pulsing the injectors to give extra fuel . I would check the resistance of the switch with a multimeter as per Clarks garage as this is a very likely cause of cold start problems if the engine runs fine when warm. best of luck.
 

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