Collection of vehicle after accident repairs, issues!

[944Scott]

Guys I'd like to get your thoughts on something.

As some of you may know back in November I had a single vehicle accident which resulted in my car ending up on its side on the dual carriageway embankment.

The bodyshop is one of my own choice and is the same one I have used when needed for at least ten years, in fact the front of the car only had paintwork the week before the accident. I agreed to collect the car today despite the fact they are waiting for a couple of wheel arch stone chip protectors (the stick on bits)
Anyway whilst driving home (the car drives fine) I was testing knobs and switches etc to see what was working and I did find an issue with the drivers mirror not working left to right and I was almost home when I switched the heater on only to find that I had hardly any heat which was followed shortly by the temperature rising to the 3/4 mark, as I pulled up home I find the that the car has no coolant in the tank whatsoever!

I have not signed off on any paperwork and after further inspection I have a list of issues;

No coolant (should I get a sniff test done after driving 20 miles like this)
Scratches on the freshly painted front bumper
Poor stone chip on the wing (fine on the sill)
Fresh scratches in the paint above newly applied stone chip on the sill.
Dashboard looks like it been wiped with a cloth that might have had some form of solvent on it (appear to be light in places and has some strange streaks on it but requires further investigation)
Drivers mirror not working correctly

Other niggles I could live with;

Engine bay covered in dust and dirt.
Masked paint marks on rubber around rear quarter light window
Lots of silicone sprayed over interior panels (even on the stereo)


I have spoken to the garage re the scratches, the mirror and the lack of coolant but how should I progress with the latter? Having had the car for nearly two months I know they have ran the car frequently if not daily, I have no idea how long they have run the car with no coolant or whether the engine has got extremely hot or even overheated and I need some suggestions on how I should progress and what should I insist on ?
With regards to the scratches I know the will attend to them but right now i'm more concerned with any possible damage to my engine.

In discussion with the garage I have agreed to fill the car with coolant and run it up over the weekend to check for any leaks but what if there aren't any? should I express my concerns with the insurance company in the first instance.

 

[Mikebarry202]

Is it worth whipping a spark plug out to see if it is glazed (overheating) or a nice light tan colour? It may not be too "definitive" but for the sake of a quick check it may ease your fears a bit? Probably number 4 plug as I think by the layout that runs hottest?

 

[bmnelsc]

Hopefully your accident documentation records the odometer reading when the car went to the shop - at least you'll know if it saw road work while at the garage. This all sounds pretty sloppy especially if you have been a customer for 10 years - I would think they would respect your property and your business more than to return your vehicle in this condition. I'd be on them about the whole list - all of it is a result of their sloppy work - and not cleaning up after is even sloppier.

If this garage is "approved" by your insurer - I'd be on to them about the quality of service. If they contact the garage about customer satisfaction issues that should smooth the way to resolving your issues as the threat of losing their preferred status should spur them to action. Unfortunately if this shop was your choice then you'll have to deal with them on your own. In my experience - once the shop gets paid (by the insurer) they become deaf, dumb and blind...

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Scott,

I've had a few "dealings" with claims, so have learned a bit despite not being an expert. I'd be on to the garage immediately, but as friendly as you can at first as they'll likely want to sort it out.

My initial thought is to document everything: photograph it all, list all your calls (when, to whom, what was said), get everything in writing when possible (email's fine).

Others might know better, and possibly worth a call to your insurer, but I thought that it was my choice to go to my own garage over their preferred option. By doing that, it was up to me to deal with them, and any problems. Your insurer might be prepared to help by holding payment: I was told three months was a minimum delay from the big insurers, so it probably won't be paid yet.

I'm not sure you'd get anywhere with the coolant, although it should be ok at this time of year as you noticed it was hot. The workshop would only be moving it in and out, I'd assume, so shouldn't ever have warmed it up. How would you prove that any damage was done by the use in the workshop, your drive home, or when it was on it's side with the engine running? Tricky one that, in my opinion, so hopefully there's no longer-term damage.

I don't think there's any issue with getting the paintwork corrected, and little things like electrics are always an issue when you pull an old car apart and put it back together again. The stone guard texture isn't easy to replicate, so might be a case of can you live with it? It's a worry that there are scratches on the front and side: it's a sign the people working there don't take care, as is the overspray.

I tihnk the workshop manager/owner would be interested to see the list of niggles. Someone will have overseen the work, and signed the car off, and that's where it's gone wrong here. It's exactly the same as my last dealings with the guys who serviced my car: it was clearly not fit to go back to the customer, so who did the final inspection? If they missed so much, I was worried about who'd actually done the servicing!

How's the dashboard? Hopefully just a poor job wiping the dust around with a grubby cloth.

Hope you get it sorted, it's gutting to pick the car up to find problems. Keep us posted!

 

[944Scott]

I wont know the state of the dash board until i'm out looking over the car tomorrow. The premises is only a small place and I know the car had been moved on a regular basis and run to keep the oil in the top of the engine (partly at my requested and they confirmed the did so prior to me driving the car away. On the whole I'm not to worried about the paint work as I know he would resolve it, he has told me in the past that he stands by his work.

Its the thought of the car being there for a couple of months started left idling on a regular basis with the possibility of no coolant in the engine, surely after crash repairs the garage are responsible to make sure the vehicle is roadworthy before releasing it, I don't want to start driving it in a month or so only to find the head gasket suddenly fails.

 

[944Scott]

ORIGINAL: bmnelsc

Hopefully your accident documentation records the odometer reading when the car went to the shop - at least you'll know if it saw road work while at the garage. This all sounds pretty sloppy especially if you have been a customer for 10 years - I would think they would respect your property and your business more than to return your vehicle in this condition. I'd be on them about the whole list - all of it is a result of their sloppy work - and not cleaning up after is even sloppier.

If this garage is "approved" by your insurer - I'd be on to them about the quality of service. If they contact the garage about customer satisfaction issues that should smooth the way to resolving your issues as the threat of losing their preferred status should spur them to action. Unfortunately if this shop was your choice then you'll have to deal with them on your own. In my experience - once the shop gets paid (by the insurer) they become deaf, dumb and blind...

The garage was my choice he used to paint Bentleys when we had a dealership here and nowadays paints Jaguars. I'm not sure where the insurance company wanted to send it for approved repairs but seeing as they recovered it to a Vauxhall dealers I didn't even give them the chance to tell me.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

The garage was my choice he used to paint Bentleys when we had a dealership here and nowadays paints Jaguars. I'm not sure where the insurance company wanted to send it for approved repairs but seeing as they recovered it to a Vauxhall dealers I didn't even give them the chance to tell me.

I had the same with mine, albeit just one wing and blending in the paint. My worry was that "blending in the paint" actually meant the whole front end, all of one side, and blending in the other side to match the front. The roof and rear end would not show a mismatch, but almost everything else would. Also, the assessor hinted that a new wing might not be needed, as they could fill it in his opinion, where the advice from a restorer was that it would be a bodge. Filling and painting one panel wasn't an acceptable option.

I went for a local repairer, and paid the difference to get the rest of the car done at the same time. I can't imagine sending the old girl on the back of a transporter to a production-line bodyshop. I'd always go for the local guy over a factory set-up catering to the insurance industry.

I'm not sure what difference it makes painting Bentleys or Vauxhalls, though? You either do it right or get it wrong whatever lump of metal you're painting. Fair enough to expect marque-specific knowledge if you're paying for a Porsche-approved bodyshop doing warranty work, but are you saying he's an approved Bentley and Jaguar repairer who's let a few silly things go wrong on your car?

I know the car had been moved on a regular basis and run to keep the oil in the top of the engine (partly at my requested and they confirmed the did so prior to me driving the car away. On the whole I'm not to worried about the paint work as I know he would resolve it, he has told me in the past that he stands by his work.

Its the thought of the car being there for a couple of months started left idling on a regular basis with the possibility of no coolant in the engine, surely after crash repairs the garage are responsible to make sure the vehicle is roadworthy before releasing it, I don't want to start driving it in a month or so only to find the head gasket suddenly fails.

As I said, I'm not sure how this would stand legally but I would assume they would say, as you asked them to do, that they'd started it up and let it idle. How long does a 3.0 lt engine take to overheat from starting? Perhaps a lot longer than they'd allow for a customer asking for it to be run so oil can circulate? Half the 944s here are sorned for 6 months of the year, so you've done more than most owners would to suggest running it regularly!

Interesting point about it being roadworthy. Playing Devil's Advocate, how do they know it was roadworthy when it went in? Are they responsible for your handbrake reading a bit low, leading to an MOT failure? Probably not. I'd say the roadworthyness needs to be areas that were part of the repair: you have a cracked rear light and ask a garage to replace it, you can't blame the garage for not changing your wheel bearings as well. Mine had several lights fail, but that was due to old wiring being disturbed. Some they fixed, others I had done as I felt it was unfair given what they'd quoted for.

I understand it's a tough call, but if I was a bodyshop repairing a car I'd limit my liability to the bodywork, within reason. If you were to call it I'd say you'd struggle to prove damage to the engine was their fault, not a result of the car being on it's side. When you asked them to run it regularly, did you check the fluids, or sign anything to suggest they would check the fluids? I hope there's no damage, but IMO the other things on the list are worth getting fixed, the engine is a really dubious area to get in to.

 

[944Scott]

They knew it was roadworthy as it was in there the week before the accident having the front bumper painted. Surely a vehicle coming in for accident repairs especially after being on its side should/would be inspected for leaks/fluid loss as part of the repair process. As the car was out of my possession from the time the accident happened obviously I am reliant on the repairer to make sure the vehicle is repaired correctly, combined with the other issues I have with the repair so far it feels like there is a certain amount of neglect on their part.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

it feels like there is a certain amount of neglect on their part.

Indeed. [&o]

I'm not sure about the mechanical side, though. The guy who did mine was purely a bodyshop, so if it needed a geo or anything that would have gone elsewhere. Was any mechanical stuff in the estimate?

What experiences have you other guys had of repairs?

 

[peanut]

sorry to hear that Scott.
I don't think there is one of us that doesn't dread putting our pride and joy into the hands of others at a garage or bodyshop. This is why I now do all my own maintenance work now but when it comes to bodywork and spraying nearly all of us are dependant on others

I had a similar issue a few years back with a specialist bodyshop of my own choosing.
I would advise you NOT to sign off the car with the insurance Company until the problems are sorted out to your satisfaction. Once you've signed to say you've accepted the car its difficult to progress any claims should it be necessary.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

it feels like there is a certain amount of neglect on their part.

I'm not sure about the mechanical side, though. The guy who did mine was purely a bodyshop

In my experience there are very few bodyshops who do mechanical works as well so unless they were specifically warned about coolant levels I would say it's outside their remit. Having also asked them to start it regularly I'd say you'd be on a sticky wicket if you had to get all legal.

However, as you have used them before and it was your choice of repairer I am sure they will look after you once you raise the issues with them on Monday morning []

 

[Masher]

Sorry to hear you're having problems. It was tough seeing the car on its side but having that compounded with issues getting it repaired must be draining.

I would suggest taking photos, videos, recording all correspondence but ultimately using your relationship with the garage to start moving things on. If this fails, the photos, videos etc all come in handy.

I would also suggest the less time the car is with you and not them at this stage the better. My reasoning is that if things don't go smoothly with the garage it is harder to prove damage did not happen in your hands. Also, having the car 'clogging' up their workshop should put some urgency into their resolution of the issue.

Since you've used them before and have an established relationship I would be surprised if resolution gets difficult BUT cover yourself in case it does (as above)

Best of luck,
Mick

 

[944Scott]

I agree masher, I made them aware of the problem as soon as it got to mine so about an hour after collecting it. I have been pawing over it today and there is lots of little problems and coolant is leaking externally at a fair pace, its all over the garage floor.

I will put a video up a bit later. When the car went to them I advised that there was a strong smell of fuel after being on its side and he said to me "don't worry we will check for leaks" []

 

[Masher]

Anything to update us on Scott? Has the bodyshop taken things in hand to sort out to your satisfaction? Hope so.

Cheers
Mick

 

[kitchens]

Sorry to hear your problems ..I am a new owner of a 944 so just finding my way around things .On reading your problems I think you have no chance of getting the garage to admit any liability and why would you need the car to be started at intervals .My car is sorned and I have only started it in the garage once in 3 months leaving it to tick over and come up to temperature on its own .Since the car had been on its side it is only natural to assume fuels coolant will have spilled out and would assume this is your responsibility to check thinks are ok before driving off unless you instructed the garage to check all mechanicals etc .They are a paint/body shop in the first instance and should have done a satisfactory job so you have cause for complaint on all the other matters but not mechanical IMO .sorry to be blunt it is just how I see it good luck in getting it resolved

 

[944Scott]

Hmm there is some update yes, I filled a whole sheet of A4 with "problems"

Kitchens, I disagree. I had told the garage at the beginning to check for leaks because there was a strong smell of fuel at the time of the accident. Over the two months it was in the body shop they had to move the car probably every other day as their unit is only small plus the fact that their accident repair unit is several miles away and the company they used for geometry checks is again several miles away in the opposite direction. My fear is during the time there car was in storage before arriving with them it lost all its coolant and..... he did tell me "oh there's no signs of leaks, there's nothing on the floor when we move it outside" That to me says no visual inspection was carried out of fluid reservoir's, again knowing the vehicle had been on its side it is their responsibility to check that the vehicle is roadworthy before leaving their possession, i'm glad I did not sign off on the repairs.

Anyway i'm told that the problem lies with the radiator, Apparently its has been pushed up from underneath and that has resulted in a mounting bolt piercing the plastic section of the radiator (which they have shown me) However this is on the top on the drivers side and the leak was coming low down on the passenger side. Now in my mind it would be pushed out under pressure from the top, something I would have seen whilst refilling the coolant and looking for leaks when it was back with me, plus given the amount of body shop dust under the bonnet and coolant pushed out under pressure should be obvious in the dust. A new radiator has been fitted but they have gone back to the insurers for supplementary costs and the Assessor has asked for a report. They might want to inspect it yet but you can see that the radiator that has come out of the car is not that old, the sticking point is the garge are hinting they did not do it and if the insurers wont pay somebody else has to.

The garage doing the radiator repairs is again a different set of premises and guess what, they drove it there knowing full well it has a coolant leak!

 

[Masher]

This might be an observation based on ignorance ....
Cars take some while to heat up. The oil temperature takes a while to get off zero in the morning (with coolant - what difference does this really make?)
Coolant does not actually lubricate anything.
Therefore, if the car has been run for only short journeys I am thinking it is unlikely any damage has occurred.
Clearly I make this observation dispassionately since it is not my car, but all the same I believe this to be true.

Am I so far off the mark?

Wishing you well resolving things,
Mick

 

[944Scott]

I hear what you are saying Masher but I only have their word to go on and so far the level of service/quality from them is completely different to what I have been used to in the past []

 

[Masher]

There is a clear issue proving ( as in to an independent scrutineer) what state the engine was in pre-crash but if it helps put your mind at rest, I'd guess it won't cost too much to get the bores 'scoped to check for scoring.

Having been there with the 'did that just cause a serious issue?' With both houses and cars in the past (and I will in the future) it is far more common for the concern to exceed the reality and typically a few months pass and it's forgotten. Try your best to get the most reassuring resolution now then after that, you'll just have to let those months pass and trust this is another worry > reality.

Keep working at it,
Mick

 

[944Scott]

I hope my fears don't turn into a reality and I have bought a small boroscope camera to have a look at the bores. Its first real test will be driving to Rutland (if I get it back in time)