Considering 964RS

[turbo jonny]

Hi folks , at present i run a 5spd 930 turbo. Ive read a lot about the 964RS though never
driven one ( none in my region - NE ). Have any of you driven a car like mine and would like to make a comparison.I fancy something lighter and more responsive without sacrificing too much power and comfort .Also my car is too valuable to start modifying it-
hence the thought of changing.... many thanks in advance

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

I think you've summed up what you will get should you decide to buy an RS. It will be all the things you quote. It will also be considerably stiffer than your turbo and obviously very basic inside compared to the lush trimmed 930. The 930 would make the better road car for long distance touring etc and the RS was built for the track but is very usable on road (i have taken mine on european holidays etc). The biggest difference in many ways will be the modernity of the 964RS, the shift is infinately better but maybe less rewarding. You will have "real" heating and abs braking.
I am basing my comparisons on a Ruf Btr (wide bodied) I am guessing that the standard 930 will not be as stiff as the Btr and is not as quick.

 

[tat]

I went from a late 930 to a 964 RS last year. The main point I would make is that they are different cars, for different purposes. In standard forms, the 930 is faster, but the 964 RS is quicker. There are a number of evolutionary advances in the 964, most notably in the suspension. Remember that many of the new features in the 964 were on items left out of the RS. A direct comparison is very difficult, but the most obvious differences are:


964 RS has brakes
RS is stiffer and louder
interior trim and comfort features (air-con, sunroof, electric windows, etc)
limited sound proofing in the RS[/LIST]

The 930 is definitely the more comfortable vehicle for long road trips, and has more luggage capacity. The RS requires much more driver involvement "" the engine is much more responsive, and steering is twitchy.

When pushing-on the 964 suspension layout makes the cornering limits much easier to access "" there is much more room for error than in the 930. The RS has much higher cornering speeds, but the 930 can accelerate out a corner quicker, so different styles are needed.

You will miss the explosive acceleration of the 930. Nothing else gives the instant gratification of flooring a 930 at 4,000 rpm in 3rd.

 

[Andy Tims]

ORIGINAL: tat

Nothing else gives the instant gratification of flooring a 930 at 4,000 rpm in 3rd.

I think doing the same in a 993, or 996 GT2 may give at least as much gratification, even more instantly[]

 

[Yoda]

Hi Jonny

First thing I would suggest is you get a ride in one or drive one before going any further - I think they are very different cars. Secondly, think carefully about how you will use the car and buy accordingly - to buy a 964 RS without trackdays being somewhere at the forefront of your mind is, imho, to miss the point. Great for use on road but there are several other better options.

Comparison - 964 will certainly feel more lively and responsive and will be less comfortable on the road. I doubt there will be a big difference in out right pace but there are differences in the delivery (turbo vs non-turbo). You lose some of the practicality of a 930 too which is not to be underestimated so I would guess that most RSs do less miles than 930s.

I would disagree with tat that the 930 is quicker anywhere eg out of a corner. If you look at stats I think the numbers are similar, on track I would say the RS would be significantly quicker around & out of corners and down the straight. I think the 930 may feel more explosive due to the turbo.

There are quite a few people at Oulton Park next Saturday (18th) good place to have a chat and go for a ride if you are serious.

 

[turbo jonny]

Thanks for the replies so far, and for the offer of rides at Oulton park.I have enjoyed a few trackdays at Croft but i do feel a bit out of the way "Up North" so that is a factor.
As for speed - its so easy to tune a 930 for that ! BUT i would rather buy a car better designed to handle it! Maybe the Carrera CS would be more suitable , like someone said i must make the effort to blag some kind owners for more experience.By the way do any of you know the black SC lightweight for sale on Autofarms website?

 

[RSGulp]

Jonny boy,

I'm in almost the same position at the moment having just sold my SC. There's a little trackday racing driver wannabe on one shoulder saying "buy a lhd 964RS!", and a little weekend road racer and long distance tourer (and his long-suffering partner) on the other shouting "No, buy a rhd 965 turbo!".

They're both almost similar money - and on paper the performance figures (0-60 / top speed) aren't really different enough to be that noticeable (I'm prepared for a barrage of replies now saying they are completely different beasts).

946 Carrera RS - 0-62mph 5.3sec, top speed 162mph
965 Turbo - 0-62mph 5.0sec, top speed 168mph (figures from back of GTPP).

I plan to look at, drive (or ride in) and evaluate both - it's the only way to come to a realistic decision. However, I do think whichever decision I make will mean compromising a little - comfort vs driving experience, explosive power vs rewarding and responsive handling, etc.

I'm sure we're not the first people to find ourselves in this predicament....?

Rich

 

[SimonExtreme]

Rich

To be fair, there are very few '64RS's that are standard power and even then, it is generally accepted that they are a bit quicker than 5.3 secs. Mine is 300bhp and according to my G Tech meter, it does the 60mph bit in 4.9 secs. And more importantly, I don't think that those sorts of raw figures do justice to the feel and how they drive. There is a considerable difference between a NA and Turbo and having spent a lot of time in the last 10 years in Turbo cars, I must say that the RS has reminded me that a NA is a true delight. (OK, I admit a GT2 -R) would be even more special[]). Also, quicker in a straight line is one thing, but it cet=rtainly isn't everything.

I think there is a lot of difference between "comfort" and "creature comforts"! IMO, the 64RS is one of the most comortable cars I have ever owned. The seat is about perfect for me and at the end of a long journey I feel less stiff and sore than any car I have ever owned. However, the car isn't quite, which I don't mind, and there is obviously no aircon, elec. windows etc. . Some might consider the ride a bit too firm but it is better than any Evo I have driven and certainly better than a Honda Integra Type R. So, it all depends on your reference point.

The thing that makes me grin every time I drive the car is the feeling of just how much like a real race car it really is. It brings out the schoolboy in me and that, for me, cannot be replaced by any amount of straight line speed.

As with everything, its all down to personal choice. The 64RS is the car for me and the only way of knowing is to drive one

 

[timbarber]

Jonny Boy

I have owned a '87 Black 4-speed 930 for 7 years. I sold it last summer and have replaced it with a '92 Black 964RS. I like Black![]

The 930 is the most fabulous looking car. Comfortable on long trips and very quick in a straight line once you get her above 3500rpm. Getting her round corners quickly is a bit more of a challenge and takes a bit of getting used to. Understeer into the corners, oversteer on the way out - once you get good at it you can even power slide, but its always fighting you and waiting to bite you if you make a mistake. A great touring car that's got space for passengers and luggage and was a joy to own. However, I love doing track days and that's not what the 930 does best.

But I think it's one of the things the 964RS does best. The 964RS is also a great looking car, purposeful rather than beautiful. The interior is basic and anything that isn't essential for its performance has been removed. The normally aspirated power is a major difference to the 930, making quick blast overtaking much easier and safer - even with LHD. I've only done a couple of track days so far, so I've got a lot more to learn but I just love it to bits already. The engine is incredibly responsive, the handling and feedback are superb, the brakes awesome and the noise sublime. It feels like a race car not a fast car. It's certainly not as practical for everyday use, and is not as comfortable on the road. The suspension is very firm, the steering a little twitchy and bumps on the road can easily launch you a few feet sideways if you're not paying proper attention.

I think you need to be sure what you want from your 911 before deciding whether the 964RS is the right car for you.

Rgds
Tim

 

[RSR]

Rich, have you already driven an example of the 965 Turbo. If so I think you will be very surprised by the performance of the Black 964 RS you will drive when we meet on Saturday. I'll be interested in your opinion, but for me the 965 turbo doesn't feel as quick as the RS. If you fancy a strange blend of the 2 cars I have a road legal Yellow wide body cup car with a 400 bhp 965 turbo engine in the back, with adjustable boost controller. Not a car in stock, but a personal toy. It's having the brakes fixed at the moment and if they're done in time we can go out in it. Bit impractical with not interior though.

 

[RSGulp]

Paul - now I'm really looking forward to meeting up on Saturday. Sounds like I'll need to bring along a spare pair of trousers? I'll call Friday pm to confirm the time with you and get directions.

Jonny Boy - I do apologise for jumping on your thread. []