Contemplating first purchase

[Guest]

Morning, all.

I'm very interested in buying a 911, but have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Hence trying to come to this Forum before walking up to a specialist used Porsche dealer or canny private seller and being seen for the innocent that I clearly am!

I've been looking through the site to see if anyone else has addressed some of the questions I have about the different models, ownership and so on, but have had no luck. I can only assume no-one else is sufficiently dim / naiive as to want to ask such questions... any help would be greatly appreciated. I posted this in a more general area, and somebody very kindly suggested that a 964 would be the best option.

1) I do about 12,000 miles per year, mostly on motorways, and will clearly put the claim that 'a Porsche is the only sports car you can actually use every day' to the test. Will I be asking too much of, say, a 1990 911 by doing this? Which model would be best for such usage?
2) I have about £20k to spend and want to hang onto as much of this as possible if I need to sell. Which of the variants / years is likely to weigh in at about this price, and which hold their value well? Is my idea of doing up to 12,000 miles in a year going to completely ruin the value of the car?
3) I have heard mixed views about the brakes on older 911s - when did they start fitting ABS? Again, is there anything model / year specific I should know about brake systems? I figure that if you want to go fast, being able to stop is a good idea.
4) How much should I budget in terms of repairs and maintenance if I were to buy the newest 911 that £20k can fetch? Anyone know any good maintenance specialists in / near London?
5) Which dealers near London / Wiltshire are at least relatively honest and helpful? Where could I test drive a few different models to get a feel for what suits best?
6) Are there any specialist Porsche insurers that anyone would recommend?
7) Is Graeme the R13 moderator right in suggesting a 964?

Sorry if these queries are annoying, but they are bugging me - any input at all (or redirection to other parts of the forum) would be most welcome!

Thanks, guys
A

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

First of all, posting the question on a 964 forum is hardly likely to get you an unbiased opinion I'm afraid - but I'll have a go.

I think having a drive of the various models would help narrow your choice. The pre-89 cars have, apparently, a good raw feel about them and are certainly a little cheaper to maintain that the 964. However, the 964 is a more modern car and niceties like ABS, power steering and independent suspension are all standard - plus you get the choice of the AWD Carrera 4 or the RWD Carrera 2. Without a doubt in the World, the C4 makes an excellent all weather transport and 12,000 mile a year isn't going to harm it's value. Many of the cars on the market will have done over 100,000 miles - and some will have had engine rebuilds (at least, top end) by now.

Everybody always recommends that you buy on condition rather than mileage and getting a professional Pre-Purchase Inspection is an absolute MUST. There are plenty of "gotchas" with the 964 which can cost dearly if you don't spot them first.

The standard brakes on the 964 are astonishing - no need to worry on that front. As I said, ABS is standard across the board on the 964.

Your budget of £20K will get you a very good 964 - the rarer ones being nearer the top end of your budget (the RS'es are even more but I wouldn't think an RS would make a good every day driver). Cabriolets tend to get more than Coupes, Celebration Coupes tend to get a bit more. Turbos will generally be a little over the £20K - even up to £30K for good ones.

Dealers who tend to have 964s include Northways (http://www.northway.co.uk/), Eporsch (http://www.eporsch.co.uk) and 911 Virgin (http://www.911virgin.com/). There are plenty of other sources, including Pistonheads (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=556) as well as the classifieds in Porsche Post (if you are a member) and the other Porsche mags.

Maintenance is likely to be £1K-£2K a year - with a 12,000 annual mileage I'd guess that one service a year will be fine albeit with, perhaps a mid-year oil change. The tappet adjustment is what makes the 964 expensive from a maintenance point of view. You can avoid that if you go for a 993 (which has hydraulic tappets) but much less likely to get within your budget (and they don't have the classic 911 look either!!).

Specialists are plentiful in and around London. Personally I use J Z Machtech in Kings Langley but there are plenty of others like Jaz in Wembley, and Parr and Carrera Performance down South. I'm sure others will make recommendations on this.

And, BTW, Graeme is spot on in recommending a 964!!! Best car in the World. Not that I'm biased of course!!!

Regards

Dave

 

[38F3E1]

1) I do exactly this. I bought my 964 as an everyday car doing similar mileage. The fact you are doing 250 miles a week mainly motorway miles is much better than short commutes every day. As for model I am firmly in the 2 wheel drive camp even for winter driving but there are many who support 4 wheel drive ... it comes down to personal preference and maybe what you are used to with other cars.

3) All 964s have ABS. They were the first model to be fitted with them I believe. Early 964s have single pot rears and later ones have two pot rears. The later brakes are better and a lot of early cars have been upgraded as it's an easy upgrade. You can easily tell by looking through the rear wheels .... if the top of the caliper is round it's early ... if it looks like the figure 8 it's late.

7) With your budget and criteria then for a 911 the 964 seems a good choice. If your budget was lower you would be looking at 3.2s and I think as you have the extra to spend the 964 is worth buying as it's a better everyday car for the miles you are looking at. If your budget was higher (around 25K) then 993 is better as everyday car definately (I don't use mine for that because it is a low mileage garage queen and I enjoy driving the 964). 996s are also in that price range but I can't comment on those.

Ian.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

3) All 964s have ABS. They were the first model to be fitted with them I believe. Early 964s have single pot rears and later ones have two pot rears. The later brakes are better and a lot of early cars have been upgraded as it's an easy upgrade. You can easily tell by looking through the rear wheels .... if the top of the caliper is round it's early ... if it looks like the figure 8 it's late.

Ian.

Ian,

Your comment above relating to the rear brakes is relevant to C2 only - C4s had the four pot rear calipers from the off in 1988.

Regards

Dave

 

[Gordon Attar]

I support everything Dave's says dont worry about 2WD vs 4WD unless you live in an area with a snow issue!! Go for condition of vehicle and get it Inspected.
1 - My 964 was happier being used when I used it as a daily driver
2- £16/17k will get you a very good example and if you can get one with around 60/70k on the clock in a couple of years I would be surprised if you lost more than the odd grand, I got my money back less £250 after 3 years and 25k.
3 - Brakes are definately not an issue
4 - Mainteneance mine averaged £800 pa inc tyres, budget £1-£2k a year
5 - For servicing use Northways nr Reading or Steve Bull in Devizes
6 - Insurance you need to ask around at the time and depends on whether you want to do track days should be £5-700
7 - R13 moderator is correct for a 911, if its a Porsche you want then the only other car in that bracket to look at is a 3.2 Boxster

 

[Guest]

Thanks so much for all your advice. I now need to get out there and do some test-driving! I plan to go and see 911virgin and Northfields, I think, unless anyone is able to recommend any other dealers closer to Central London!
Thanks again,
Alex

 

[RichardLW]

Look at the cars on pistonheads.com. There are big savings to be made by buying privately and the warranty any dealer will give you is unlikely to cover what actually happens - new clutch and flywheel/new discs/new dampers etc - as these are wear and tear items. Find a car you like and have it PPI'd. If its good, you stand to save at least £3K - if it highlights problems, you have the opportunity to walk away or negotiate the price down.

Many of the cars around have had engine rebuilds, new clutches and flywheels/oil pipes etc and will represent extremely good value.

Your proposed mileage will take a toll on future values as people want low mileage cars and I reckon that you need to factor in at least £1.2K for servicing. Buy cheaply so you don't take a hit as soon as you drive out of the dealers.

By all means go to the dealers and have a look and a test drive but DO look at all the private stuff. Try this - I advertised my car (964 Celebration) for, I think, £21500. No-one was interested so I contacted a dealer who identified three problems - clutch/flywheel/rear discs - which would cost no more than £3K to fix - and offered me £16250 which I accepted. The car later sold for £24K via a dealer. Were the problems fixed? I don't know but someone could have had the car and fixed the problems when they became serious (ex the rear discs) and saved over £5K.

I bought my next car - a 993C4S - for £30K and saved £5/6K over prices in the summer which are still hardening as we speak.

 

[Guest]

My beloved 964 is for sale - I now have 3 children. It is a LHD and is a 1991 German model - equivalent to about a 1993 UK model in terms of spec, eg twin airbags, aircon etc. Come and have a look!!
Its on autotrader at www.autotrader.co.uk type in postcode of rg9 5jb and search by distance. Mine is the one at £15k and top of the list!
Nigel

 

[PMMatthews]

I have my 964 serviced by RWA Porsche at Vauxhall (right by the station). I know Bob sells a few cars and he mentioned earlier in the week that he had a nice tiptronic for less than £15K. I've been very happy with the servicing work and find Bob very easy to deal with and v. knowledgeable. Otherwise, try Roly Baldwin at Eporsch in Chertsey.