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Cup Confusion Continues

John Sims

John Sims

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SC290707%209%203_small.jpg

Picture from Rick Cannells Events web site.

Feature in Nov 2007 GT Porsche doesn't seem to shed much more light on debates at the Silverstone Classic.

Seemingly (based on the Superchips Maha dyno) the car is running 23 psi of boost [:eek:] and dolling out 290 bhp with 318 torques. and a 7.9k rev limit. [:eek:][:eek:]. I wonder what it would say on "The Rollers of Truth" if it held together long enough to get it there. Either way it is a little short of the owners suggested 600 bhp.

The owner is quoted as saying "I took it to the Silverstone Classic and on one of the parade laps opened it up a bit - it felt like it never wanted to stop" I wonder if that was when Derek Bell was driving it. [8|]
 
23psi is a heck of a lot of boost [:eek:] and 7900 rpm is a lot of revs [:eek:][:eek:]

I truly hope he get's it setup by someone who knows what they are doing so it can live for many more years to come
 
Nearly 1.6 bars. You are talking serious head work, a completely uprated fuel system, and possibly water injection to get that level of boost. There are some in the States that are running 20psi and that seems to be the upper limit without liners from what I can gather.
 
Maybe its more like 8psi of boost? i.e 23 - 15



I'll get me coat.....


BTW mirrors look like cup car mirrors, no headlight washers etc. but I thought cup cars had cooling ducts where the fog light units are mounted?

Did this car have the magnesium teledials? (or is that a myth) and is the roll cage made by Matter? etc. etc.
 
The car does have a Matter cage, electrical kill switches and plumbing in the engine bay for a fire eater.

The strut brace seems to have vanished and who can tell if an inlet manifold is magnesium or not. Otherwise it seems to have, or not have, all the right bits.

It does have a rather nice fluid damped boost gauge in the centre consul with 2 tape triangles on the face - a green one pointing to .85 bar boost (it reads 0 at atmospheric) and a red triangle pointing to 1.1 bar of boost. This would seem to be more in line with the boost levels one would expect.

The owner seemed to know very little about the car at Silverstone so 23psi could be a misunderstanding. The article demonstrates the power and torque graphs from Superchips but no indication of boost.
 
Well you have confused me!
I thought that cup cars were just foreign versions of the silver rose, for example:
http://cgi.ebay.fr/PORSCHE-944turbo-CUP-250CV-de-1988-ou-951S_W0QQitemZ300159769320QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9842QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
Well it does seem a little strange. 7900rpm's would need racehead & cam + solid lifters. 290 hp at 23psi also doesn't sound right either, nor does 600hp.[:-] I would need further verification of some of these details before I purchased this car...if that's what's in question here?
 
The magnesium intake manifold is usually beige and the surface finish is flat compared to the aluminium one being slightly rough.
'88 turbo S sold on the french market where labeled "944 Turbo Cup" by the french importer, supposedly as a promotional reminder to the then current Cup trophy.

I think brake ducts in place of fog lights is a '90-only feature (french cars only).
For previous years fog lights locations were simply blanked.
 
ORIGINAL: TTM

The magnesium intake manifold is usually beige and the surface finish is flat .....
Click to expand...

That'll be the one then.

Beige painted inlet manifolds - the must have mod for 2008 :)
 
Wow, maybe my beige painted S2 head is also magnesium then [;)][;)][;)]

I must try and set fire to it to check :ROFLMAO:
 
ORIGINAL: Diver944
Wow, maybe my beige painted S2 head is also magnesium then [;)][;)][;)]
Click to expand...

Not sure what it's made of, but it is surprisingly light considering its size.
 
Oh no... I know this car very well :eek:(

This car is a factory 944 Turbo Cup race car.

It had a front and rear accident about 14 years ago on a track on the continent. For some reason the bodyshop in france who had the car for repairs, ended up owning it.... 5 years later sold it to someone in Poole, dorset...(still in crashed condition) where it sat in a storage unit for 8 years....(still crashed) During that time I almost brought it and was negotiating for its purchase for under £4000 when the current owner brought it from under my nose (A lesson to be learned there)

It has also at some time in the past had a replacement engine from Porsche, with the same engine numbers as the original engine, but with an extra postfix on the end of the number.

No one knows its full history before the accident and Porsche have put a block on people researching it in the archives. They only confirm its an 1986 944 turbo cup built for the race series.

The new owner has put a standard front pu on it and had a bit of a cheap and cheerfull paint job on the whole car... Simon at SPS and I both tried to tell him to do things differently than he has, but he has his own plan.

I helped him get it running and let him borrow a pair of ECU's to complete this goal (Which he still has in the car, and had in silverstone! I WANT THEM BACK!!!)... they are currently fitted with two of my old version chips from ages ago, should not be run above 18 PSI (Even though some people run them at 20 EEK!)

I just wish I had not tried to lower the price further... otherwise this one could be in my collection now being restored fully :eek:(


 
Good to see you back on the forum Jon.

"No one knows its full history before the accident and Porsche have put a block on people researching it in the archives."

Did anyone die in the Turbo Cup series? That might account for the car being held in it's damaged condition for so long and also for the secrecy.
 
Is anyone else a bit surprised at the claimed weight of 1220kg? Seems rather light to me for a car that appears to have standard body panels. Sure it has no power steering but it does have a cage which would cancel that out. Even if it has thinner glass/carpets and the magnesium parts it still seems a little surprising. I guess it can't be undersealed but what's that worth, 25kg or more?

I've always fancied a Cup car but it's very sad to see one so misunderstood, there must be something very wrong with the power/boost pressure claimed and the high ride height looks very silly.

There's a good thread about the US cup cars on Rennlist if anyones interested:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=234752
 
Here's the pictures from the Silverstone Classic. Fen & I examined it at the time.

The inlet manifold looks bog standard 220. The injectors and FPR are standard. We couldn't see the Turbo because of the standard airbox / j-Pipe / plumbing.

The engine does nothing to indicate it is anything other than a standard 220/250 spec from the outside.

Please let me watch it run 23 PSI boost !!! [:D][:D] Theoretically it should run so hot with a standard turbo in the inlet that the magnesium inlet manifold would catch fire [:D] [:D] [:D]

Happy days at the Silverstone Classic ....

[:)] [:)] [:)]
 
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