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Der Kleiner Renn Panzer

Ben Savill

PCGB Member
Member
As promised in another thread ("Six 964's go to Spa"), I thought I would post about the creation of my little race tank - Der Kleiner Renn Panzer. For those with a background in Cal look VW's, yes you are right I cannot claim fame to this title, as it is a play on the famous DKP club of 1960's Orange County, LA. At least we are keeping it in the family.

A few years ago with the ever increasing value of the aircooled RS' and my wish to "push on" with track driving, I decided that it would make sense to take a stock 964 and create something akin to a 964 RS but without the concerns of affecting the integral value of the car if I had an "off".

So the search was on. Initially we - Steve Winter from Jaz and I - were on the look out for a Carrera 2 but then we came across Rob Hounslow's C4. This was a RHD car without A/C and without sunroof, so in its own right quite an unusual car for the UK but perfect for our needs. Rob had already done a lot of the cosmetic RS work - lightweight interior and door cards, Cobra seats, front brake ducts and the car also benefitted from a relatively recent engine rebuild.

While not immediately sounding like the ideal, the C4 made sense for a number of reasons. I already had a 964 RS gearbox with a fresh LSD so the rear trans was always going to be put in storage in favour of this. The C4 right from birth came with the 4 pot rear brake calipers, something that the C2 would have to wait a couple of years for. The servo and proportioning valve, while not quite up to 964 RS spec are closer on a C4 than on a C2.

Having agreed a sum with Rob, the car was duly taken to Jaz where the whole of the trans - front and rear - was removed and replaced with the RS gearbox. Steve and team created a few work arounds to keep the "brain" happy as clearly it had lost half of the transmission. All mounts - engine and gearbox were swapped out for RS items. RS swaybars fitted both front and rear. Bilstein PSS10 struts were installed with front and rear camber plates and monoballs. The car was run like this for about 6 months and perfomed really well.

I then got the itch to sort out the bodywork. It was clear that the dreaded tin worm had got in to the bodywork but then this was reflected in the price paid for the car. As ever, when you really started looking things were worse than first thought. Bruce Cooper at Sportwagen was entrusted with the work. How we managed to convince him that a lowly 964 should grace his body shop I don't know but we did. Quite a few months, a lot of cutting and fitting of new panels, installation of a Matter-esque cage, respray and a serious workshop fire later, the car emerged.

It is a thing of beauty. The guys at Sportwagen have truly done a magnificent job. I have glazed over a lot of the work Sportwagen have done but the quality of their work and professionalism through trying times really cannot be over emphasized.

While the car was off the road, the original harnesses and seats were swapped out for some Schroth 6 pointers and Recaro SPG's with painted seat backs and embroidered covers from Southbound. New RS door cards and a light weight carpet set were also ordered from Southbound. I resisted the temptation to totally remove the carpet and go a la Clubsport to keep the cost down - seems weird I know but funds dictated. To remove all the glue etc is a tough, time consuming job so I reined back on that. The carpet set has been trimmed to fit around the cage and looks great.

All the headlining however has gone so it is naked up top and lightweight, manicured fur downstairs - not a bad combination admittedly but I do appreciate the bare all over look too [:)]

The central locking, electric windows and radio have all been removed. The flag mirrors have been replaced with the obligatory manual Cup mirrors.

I managed to source a set of 17" BBS split rims which suit the car perfectly and had them fitted with a set of MPSCs - great tyre if a little bit sketchy in the wet.

I picked up the car last weekend and was just blown away by it, having only seen pictures of all the work. It drove brilliantly with so much mechanical grip it really was a revelation. Its first real test was at MSV's Brands Hatch GP day on 11th July. I had so much fun in the car it was insane. I actually came away wondering what all the fuss is about on the modern gear. Sure you are going faster but are you having any more fun? As we all know, there is something very satisfying about hounding down a motor that really should be going a little quicker.

Are there any more changes to make? Very few. The front of the car is going to get some Armorfend to protect the luscious paint; perhaps when the front discs have given up the ghost I'll fit the RS uprights and upgrade the calipers to RS spec and fit drilled discs; oh and the small matter of the motor needing a look at, as it isn't very happy at the moment.

I really cannot wait to get back in and drive the thing!

A massive "Thank You! to Steve and the Jaz boys and Team Sportwagen.



019751B59D4E4ABA9767783AA8FB55D5.jpg
 
Thanks Ben - I enjoyed reading that. What a cracking little car. I cant put my finger on it, but there is something in the simplicity and smooth styling that makes it look great. Clearly there are a lot of people taking this route now.
 
Ben,

sounds and looks like a great project, prob the way to go in the future. I agree with your thoughts about further brake upgrades - the standard discs will give give up the ghost quickly on track as I remember from the early 90s torturing an innocent C2 on track.

It will be a big peace of mind on track that it´s not a too precious car (although very nice) - and that a full rebuilt will be possible anytime.

Have you contacted Des already? He´s running the Modified Section and I think that car is perfect for his intentions.

Congrats to the new toy,

Hacki

P.S.: Orange County, LA - the Cal look VWs are no longer on the road, a few of them can be seen in the desert having wekend fun. (Baja style that is)
 
Great write up Ben and 'Der Kleiner Renn Panzer' will be a welcome addition to our 964 pilgrimage to Spa [:)]

What attention does the motor need?
 
ORIGINAL: Hacki

It will be a big peace of mind on track that it´s not a too precious car (although very nice) - and that a full rebuilt will be possible anytime.

Thanks Hacki - my thoughts precisely.


ORIGINAL: Hacki
I agree with your thoughts about further brake upgrades - the standard discs will give give up the ghost quickly on track as I remember from the early 90s torturing an innocent C2 on track.

Actually found the standard brakes are much better for track use than perhaps one might expect. Sportwagen made up some funnels to channel the air from the front brake ducts in to hosing which then feeds directly on to the brakes. This does make a significant difference.

Braking style is important also. I remember Melv saying sometime ago, that having a car with standard brakes promotes using the brakes efficiently - you can't get away with lazy application of the brakes as they will overheat and warp the discs. Been there, done that. Warm the brakes up, then short but very positive application is the way forward. Of course ventilated discs are the ideal but not absolutely essential.

All the best Hacki!

Ben.




0F85B8E27F3F43A7919ECD2A11445FFB.jpg
 
I love these 964 enthusiast stories and to hear of good dealers work.
I had a few days on track this year in mine and had the chance to compare it back to back against
Cayman and others.To me the 964 didnt feel slower but was a whole lot more engaging.
964 - there is no substitute !
 
Thanks Steve - really want to get to Spa next year!

Re the motor. We believe it's building crankcase pressure and blowing oil out of the breather at the top of the dry sump tank.

Initially thought the oil was coming from the connecting hoses in to the dry sump but we have replaced all of those and checked them through.

After some hard sessions at Brands, noticed the oil collecting around the sump tank again and it was all around the inner wheel arch and trailing arm. Cleaned it all up and checked all the lines going in to the thermostat etc - nothing.

When I pulled the dipstick out, there was a steady plume of oily steam / smoke coming out of the dipstick tube.

Jaz are going to have a look, do a compression test and see what that indicates.

Will keep you posted.
 
H I think we bumped in to each other a few years ago when I first got the car. Did a Goldtrack day at Silverstone and you turned up for the evening session. I think you had just got the car then too. Would have been about Oct 2009 I reckon.

Thanks for kind words.

ORIGINAL: h_____

Thanks Ben - I enjoyed reading that. What a cracking little car. I cant put my finger on it, but there is something in the simplicity and smooth styling that makes it look great. Clearly there are a lot of people taking this route now.
 
ORIGINAL: Ben Savill

Actually found the standard brakes are much better for track use than perhaps one might expect. Sportwagen made up some funnels to channel the air from the front brake ducts in to hosing which then feeds directly on to the brakes. This does make a significant difference.

Braking style is important also. I remember Melv saying sometime ago, that having a car with standard brakes promotes using the brakes efficiently - you can't get away with lazy application of the brakes as they will overheat and warp the discs. Been there, done that. Warm the brakes up, then short but very positive application is the way forward. Of course ventilated discs are the ideal but not absolutely essential.

Sounds like we're on the same page regarding the brakes. I upgraded the small rears on my C2 to C4 spec about four years ago. With performance pads (Hawk blues for me) I've rarely found them wanting. If anything, they've help me develop a better braking technique and am steadily moving towards Melv's ethos of "use the brakes less!" [:D] With the result being that I'm reducing the over-braking (that I'm sure many of us are guilty of when first start track driving) and carrying more speed to the apex.

Standard OEM discs are circa £50 each and pads are significantly less than big red size. Whenever I've done the maths of a 'big red' upgrade, the conclusion has always been that I can buy a lot of discs and pads for the cost of the upgrade. So, I've decided that the next step is to add proper cooling later this year....just like your pic. [:)]
 
I'll post up a pic of the funnels that Sportwagen made up for ducting the air flow as they really do the trick. Not sure if you can buy these in plastic any longer but I believe the ducts that fit in to the bumper are no longer available OEM. Certainly the RSR has the funnel on the back side of the duct with the heavy duty articulated tubing to direct the flow.

Re the brakes - it isn't a cheap exercise to go to 964 RS or "Big Reds", especially if you change the uprights so that the calipers mount radially rather than using an aftermarket bracket to convert. Using 993 RS / GT2 aluminium uprights are an option but then you have to consider that the strut bolts are different - 12mm vs 14mm I think - and you would have to change the outer ends of the tie rods to 993 RS / GT2. If you can find a car that has already had this done like Oldtimer's then good for you. As ever, if somebody else has paid for it, all the better.
 
"....wondering what all the fuss is about on the modern gear. Sure you are going faster but are you having any more fun?"

Absolutely Ben...

And OMG, some people are listening to me!!!![:D]
 

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill

H I think we bumped in to each other a few years ago when I first got the car. Did a Goldtrack day at Silverstone and you turned up for the evening session. I think you had just got the car then too. Would have been about Oct 2009 I reckon.

Thanks for kind words.

ORIGINAL: h_____

Thanks Ben - I enjoyed reading that. What a cracking little car. I cant put my finger on it, but there is something in the simplicity and smooth styling that makes it look great. Clearly there are a lot of people taking this route now.
Ah yes - apologies I do recall - I'm shocking with names an faces [:D].

Have the same ducting on the RS actually, and I agree its very effective. However, I'm heavy on brakes in all cars. Some people just are!
 

ORIGINAL: h_____

Have the same ducting and I agree its very effective.

+1

...but some years ago (and after some ruined brakes in Clubsport events) I changed my style and learned how to be more effective with the brakes.
Both, as Ben said above, helps.

Temperaturewise the front is safe (Big reds and vented), if ever a problem might occur (hasn´t eversince) it will be the rear brakes. The PORSCHE lettering on the calipers looks a bit cooked.


Regards,

Hacki

P.S.: Do you still use cars in GB or only boats?
 
To be fair H I was leaving and you were turning up. We just waved at each other in appreciation of our 964's ! A proper introduction will come at some point no doubt.

ORIGINAL: h_____


ORIGINAL: Ben Savill

H I think we bumped in to each other a few years ago when I first got the car. Did a Goldtrack day at Silverstone and you turned up for the evening session. I think you had just got the car then too. Would have been about Oct 2009 I reckon.

Thanks for kind words.

ORIGINAL: h_____

Thanks Ben - I enjoyed reading that. What a cracking little car. I cant put my finger on it, but there is something in the simplicity and smooth styling that makes it look great. Clearly there are a lot of people taking this route now.
Ah yes - apologies I do recall - I'm shocking with names an faces [:D].

Have the same ducting on the RS actually, and I agree its very effective. However, I'm heavy on brakes in all cars. Some people just are!
 
The one and only time gelato man!

ORIGINAL: Melv

"....wondering what all the fuss is about on the modern gear. Sure you are going faster but are you having any more fun?"

Absolutely Ben...

And OMG, some people are listening to me!!!![:D]
 


Nice write up Ben - I can see you are all ready in love with the Old Girl - enjoy driving her now![;)]
 

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