Disaster!!! Side walls/sill collapsed in - corrosion + bodge job

[Outrun944]

DISASTER!!

At the garage today having my oil leak sorted, but whilst up on the ramp a section of the sills caved in.
On the driver side from the edge of rear wheel arch to where the drivers door shuts its all crumpled in.

It's all rusted and corroded away inside which we can now see how bad it exactly is now. I knew it wasn't looking brilliant when I bought it in my limited knowledge and experience and that we'd end up doing some work here, but no idea *how bad* as its *all* the way down both sides...

Turns out ... in the words of my mechanic 'Someones done a bad bodge job on this and filled them with fibreglass - if I was you I'd be f****** furious and be on the phone to the dealership'
Hmmm. I doubt I'll squeeze any recompense out of them.... maybe threaten them with trading standards and see if they send me a cheque? Anyway....

Quick estimate, its going to cost up to £1500 to sort ... as whole sections need to be cut away and maybe completely replaced.

I'm going to take some pics, maybe later today ... right now I just wanna go out to a BBQ and get drunk. [&o]

What I'll probably need your guys assistance with in the next few days is getting catalog part numbers as whole chunks of the side will need to be cut away and probably replaced.

It could, with these things end up costing more, so I'm at the point too really thinking is it really worth it ....

 

[Diver944]

[][][]

Really sorry to hear this [&o]

All of the parts are still available from Porsche if it just the sills that have crumpled - outer sills are around £140 a side and inner sills are a bit less. However I have not heard of sills ever crumpling if the car has been lifted on the correct lifting points. The load bearing lift points are a few inches inboard of the actual sills and I would have thought even the rustiest sill would not be damaged if the car was lifted there (unless it had spread to the lift points)

 

[pauljmcnulty]

The load bearing lift points are a few inches inboard of the actual sills and I would have thought even the rustiest sill would not be damaged if the car was lifted there (unless it had spread to the lift points)

My thoughts as well. Was it lifted in the wrong place, or has the rot spread further than usually the case. It's a reason for people with sills starting to go (which is most of us []) to think carefully about at least treating them to slow the spread. And, getting them replaced sooner rather than later.

It's horrible to hear stories like this, the cars are so cheap now that any major work is going to seem expensive. I'm not sure that any other 25-year-old car wouldn't be needing at least as much welding, if not more, and newer cars lose thousands each year in depreciation. Whether that softens the blow I don't kknow, beer might be more effective!

 

[peanut]

are you sure they jacked the car in the right place ?

I never let the garage jack my car anywhere other than under the wishbones. These cars are just too heavy to be jacked on the floors and cills despite the Porsche workshop manual suggested jacking points.

If your car was on the ramp I don't understand how the cills could suddenly crush themselves without some assistance ?

edit ...oops didn't see your post Paul! .........still great minds and all that[]

 

[Outrun944]

I'll grill my garage again on this tomorrow - I know even the jacking points are pretty shot - either way it's happened and would have eventually happened at some point anyway I guess. It needed to be done, and the other month on the full service he did warn me that there would be extensive welding work needing to be done before the MOT - we just didn't know how bad and the extent of it, and that some bodge job had been done previously - presumably to get the car sold.

 

[Frenchy]

A friend of mine is selling his for breaking as the rear suspension mounts are rotten and it is not economical to repair it,though he never keeps on top of it and the only time he sees the underside is MOT time.
It is a late model Turbo and mechanically very sound.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I'll grill my garage again on this tomorrow - I know even the jacking points are pretty shot - either way it's happened and would have eventually happened at some point anyway I guess. It needed to be done, and the other month on the full service he did warn me that there would be extensive welding work needing to be done before the MOT - we just didn't know how bad and the extent of it, and that some bodge job had been done previously - presumably to get the car sold.

If the rot's spread to the jacking points I can't see the repair being worth doing. Sound cars are so cheap now that getting one that only needs the sills doing is pretty straightforward. If the damage hasn't been stopped before it spreads that far you're in to big money just to bodge it for a few years.

Replacing just both sills, and repairs to areas like wing bottoms, and a proper paint job, are going to cost at least £2K. Not a great deal of money as a once every 25 years cost on a Porsche, but most people don't factor in the cost of maintaining and restoring a classic Porsche when they buy a cheap 944.

It's probably not what you want to hear, and I hate seeing cars scrapped, but the amount of work you are talking about here would buy you a better 944. You could well be into S2 money, let alone late Lux in good condition, if there is that much rust. []

 

[Outrun944]

 

[Outrun944]

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Looks like the sill has been jacked, not the jacking point - which is behind!
Mike

 

[Outrun944]

Thats what I would think looking at the photos, but this happened when it was raised up on the lift at the garage. I'll have to clarify this with them again, they'd have no reason to jack up at the back when all they were doing for me was cleaning the air filters on the engine! (oil leak issue)

 

[pauljmcnulty]

this happened when it was raised up on the lift at the garage.

To me, that looks very much like it's been lifted on both sides (four point lift?) on the sills. That would have happened without the rust!

 

[Outrun944]

It's a two pronged lift, as far as I remember.

I really don't think they would have been as stupid as to lift it on the sills ... I mean, when I first brought it in (back in early March after I bought it) they gave me a lecture and long discussion on which jacking points to use as the ones described in the manual looked bad etc and I wasn't sure what to use.

If it was sat on the lift on the jacking points, could that give way like it has done and crumple in the side?

Also ... if you look on the last photo there, all along the sides up to an exact certain point its looks quite 'bubble-y' ... is this normal or is this bubbling from water getting behind and rusting from the inside?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Also ... if you look on the last photo there, all along the sides up to an exact certain point its looks quite 'bubble-y' ... is this normal or is this bubbling from water getting behind and rusting from the inside?

That's the Wurth underseal all along the bottom. This stops stonechips, but also does a good job of holding the sills together and hiding problems. Hence, we always repeat the necessity of inspevting the sills internally, very simple through the vent in the door pillar.

I have never seen a car do that if lifted on a 4-point lift. The four jacking points are only to be used this way, each supporting 1/4 of the car's weight.

 

[Peter_Bull]

It looks like they have used the lift and failed to raised that jackiing head enough for the arms to clear the sill.

The sill may be rotten but it shouldn't have collapsed like that - unless of course the whole area is so rotten that the jack point itself has deteriorated so badly that the whole area has collapsed.

I feel for you. I love the 944, and especially the early ones as they have a certain 'rawness' about them. Love the Cookies too.

Best of luck.

 

[sulzeruk]

As Peter says, they have not raised the jacking cups enough for the arms to clear the sill and the arm hads crushed it, i would be going back and asking them what they are going to do about it! Even if it was a bit rotten underneath, the bodge looked serviceable for just now until you can do them properly!
Alasdair

 

[peanut]

absolutely agree with the others. The garage have clearly not jacked the car in accordance with safe and recognized practice. It was probably hoisted by an unskilled person.
You shouldn't let the garage bamboozle you into accepting this damage. They are insured against such events.

The fact that the cills have been bodged and are rotted has nothing to do with the damage they have caused by their negligence.

If i were you i'd get someone else to discuss this with the garage proprieter on your behalf. Make it clear that unless they come to some kind of financial arrangement that you will be persuing this.
The first thing you need is a written statement from an automotive engineer that the car has been incorrectly jacked and the damage sustained was as a direct result of the garage's bad practice/error.

Even if you only get a couple of hundred pounds towards the repair costs it would be somthing.

Remember ...if the garage had jacked the car correctly you would not be off the road in this mess now but would have time to arrange the repairs at your convenience

 

[Peter_Bull]

ORIGINAL: sulzeruk
.............. the jacking cups .................

Those are the words I was looking for!! Thanks.

 

[david924s]

I would agree with evryone's comment it looks to me like the jacking cup on the lift has not been lifted high enough to clear the sill, it is right on the point where a lift would go so too much of a coincidence to me.

 

[DivineE]

My sills were WAY worse than that and didn't 'collapse' when jacked up. I'm afraid that is a garage error for what good it'll do you. Either way its a good time to force the issue of getting the sills done to prevent further rusting. It could be a blessing to catch it at this point before it spreads into the inner sills!