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Melv

PCGB Member
Member
Lets open this query up a bit......

"I have been a PCGB member for many years but my passion has always been the 356. I started looking at early 911's lately and ended up with a 1973 Carrera 2.7 RS lightweight which opened my eyes to this amazing breed of Porsches. I am now looking for a 964 RS and/or a 993 RS lightweights and wondered if you could advise on value for money, appreciation potential etc. as a comparison."
 
Hi Mel

"Open cheque books at the ready"
Better than keeping money in the building society and so much more fun.

Have fun

Paul Kelley
 
Ze train 'as left the station and is travelling at some speed!

Ze 'orse 'as left the stable....

etc......
 
But we all thought that when they were £43k ...

And they don't make them any more.

I was asked a very interesting question yesterday at Anglesey.

With what model did Porsche's become disposable ? i.e. at some point even bodily sound cars will be scrapped ?
 
moving way off topic ! there is some EU or other ruling that after a given date (well passed by now) all new vehicles should be made of such materials as to be recyclable. Whilst this is fact it would not imho mean that any given Porsche would end up so. Bear in mind that even if Porsche completely withdrew support from a certain model year onwards there would be a healthy aftermarket to support it. Worth also bearing in mind that Porsche still supports it's earliest models . Add to this it would be certain suicide removing a complete tier of vehicles from it's used car range , without which new cars would be considerably harder to sell knowing that resale value would be vastly limited. After 10 years it's scrap ! highly unlikely at least for the forseeable future i think.
As fossil fuels dwindle and the motor car moves deeper into it's next century , who knows what might be the case in sixty plus years time. I do know i probably wont be around to worry about it.
 
I think my answer would be "when Porsche themselves started to make their cars easily disposable" [;)]


ORIGINAL: ChrisW

But we all thought that when they were £43k ...

And they don't make them any more.

I was asked a very interesting question yesterday at Anglesey.

With what model did Porsche's become disposable ? i.e. at some point even bodily sound cars will be scrapped ?
 
It's all in the stars, when Venus has a total eclipse of Uranus and the Crab Nebulae comes into view with Betlejuice then values will be defined by the market index of, F=d=C=3Xp2square.
 

ORIGINAL: Melv

Lets open this query up a bit......

"I have been a PCGB member for many years but my passion has always been the 356. I started looking at early 911's lately and ended up with a 1973 Carrera 2.7 RS lightweight which opened my eyes to this amazing breed of Porsches. I am now looking for a 964 RS and/or a 993 RS lightweights and wondered if you could advise on value for money, appreciation potential etc. as a comparison."

So having the best advice on the planet did he/her buy anything?

always nice to hear a complete story[:)]
 
I was asked a very interesting question yesterday at Anglesey.

With what model did Porsche's become disposable ?

"The day they adopted the advice of Toyota lean manufacturing, this modern design for manufacture / design for assembly approach took a hand crafted 911 product containing craft skills from the 50's, and replaced it with Toyota assembly techniques and the outcome of the ULSAB project. ULSAB (Ultra Light Steel Auto Body) was a project funded by the Steel Industry to head off the threat of Aluminium as showcased in the A8 / Honda NSX in the early 90's. By 1996 Porsche had a 986 / 996 design with many common parts (good idea) but the metal work was not to the standard of 944, 911, 964, 993 Porsche production. It was more akin to Starlet, Corolla, Carina, Supra. Tinny doors, tinny roof etc. We wont mention the dry to wet Sump engine compromises made at the time.

The Brand carried huge cred' - TAG F1, Le-Mans and motorsport generally had seen to that over many years.

The Cost savings were retained by the Company, to the point it became the most profitable Car Co in the world in terms of % margin. The penny pinching continues to this day, apparently it extends to the product endurance testing which they were once so famous for, to the extent that a new GT3 model design or manufacturing process is so near the wire, that it has become a modern day version of Longbridge product engineering with catastrophic engine failures.

Time to bring Toyota back and get a refresher course on Reliability.

Ferdinand would not be impressed.

For genuine bullet-proof engineering-led Product design, I suggest Woking, not Stuttgart

......any way, did he/her buy anything?


 
They began making disposeable cars at exactly the same point that they saved themselves from inevitable bankruptcy.

The fact they became disposable is the same fact that they managed to survive the last 18 years.

The fact they nearly went bankrupt again and ended up being bailed out was down to greed.

To be fair though lots of their cars in the past were disposable as many simply rusted away pre galvanisation. They are only being saved now due to the values of these old cars.
 


Your right Jason - to a point!

If you buy a car that needs restoration properly say a 356 coupe/cab it is far in excess to what the finished car would be worth today if you include the cost of a car.

However, what the same car will be worth in ten years time is anyone's guess.[&:]

My guess, following current trends you should at least get your money back plus approx 30/50% more than the restoration and original car cost[:)]

Looked at like that with no tax and insurance running at £220 pa its cheap motoring. [:)]
 
Problem is John is like you say 'is anyones guess'.

Whether or not current trends will continue for the next 10 years is very very big guesswork. Bubbles can expand as well as burst and usually do.

If it expands much further it is going to kill Porsche ownership as a hobby and we will all end up being nothing but reluctant collectors/investors.....
 

ORIGINAL: jason

Problem is John is like you say 'is anyones guess'.

Whether or not current trends will continue for the next 10 years is very very big guesswork. Bubbles can expand as well as burst and usually do.

If it expands much further it is going to kill Porsche ownership as a hobby and we will all end up being nothing but reluctant collectors/investors.....


Thanks for your reply Jason.


The problem is if you have a few pounds to spare what do you do with it?[&:]

Even if you break even or loose a few bob on your selected classic Porsche you can always look back at what fun it was to own and drive.[:)]

Chances are you choose carefully you wont loose too much!
 

ORIGINAL: jdpef356



Your right Jason - to a point!

If you buy a car that needs restoration properly say a 356 coupe/cab it is far in excess to what the finished car would be worth today if you include the cost of a car.


This is not true any more in general for any early (pre A) car and for any 356 speedster or roadster or cabriolet , where sales prices are in range £100k to £300k ......you can spend £50 -£100 k on a resto if you wish.....but choosing the resto candidate carefully will help here [;)]

It is also not true for most 356A coupes especially if they are RHD , where sales prices are in range £70k to £100k for RHD

It is reaching the tipping point on 356B/C coupes .....especially if RHD ....

Most of the restoration 'names' are booked up for years ahead with work , I can only guess at the range of resto prices as most owners dont want to brag about it in case their wives get to hear the numbers [:D]
 
Totally agree Jason,

Porsche AG were a fragile commercial model for years, and needed to improve to avoid the fate of many other European automotive specialists.

But the disappointment for me is the dilution of the engineering integrity of their sports cars. Less aggressive money making, balanced with more customer care, and keeping the accountants away from the CAD System & Procurement process would have been nice, and saved their diminishing reputation.

Greed indeed.....exactly how I perceive the culture of the company.

Nice garage you have there, especially the beauty in Orange [:)] - it really suits her.

George
944t
 
Agreed George - their downfall was they went far too far the other way!

They did need to be more efficient and more profitable to exist but ended up seeing this as there only goal and lost sight of what had always made them revered around the world for the previous 50 years....

They were not alone in this respect in the late 90's to late 00's.....nor was this attitude unique to their industry!! Sadly...
 
Yes, Mercedes dalliance with Chrysler set the most respected Car Manufacturer on the planet back 30 years.

The worlds favourite Airline lost out to the type of Customer Care now dished out by the likes of Ryan Air

The same thing happened to home furniture when Victorian Craft Skills were replaced by MFI

Its impossible to buy a dishwasher, toaster, kettle or iron that will last 10 years

80% of the tools in a hardware store are pure junk

Since the world became conscious of the value of its resources, the waste of them has rocketed with their use to produce crap

There are more academics and qualification on the planet than at any time in history

Its called progress

[:D]
 
Seems the scribe is looking for you to validate values on the later RS. If you were genuinely an admirer and not an investor of the latter cars why would future values be an issue? If you were considering a purchase at today's higher values that is.
I imagine the eclectic mix of today's contributors on the RS forums will change a tad in the future if values increase further as new investors / owners enter the fold.
I'm considering flogging a 'Virgin barn find RS' and using the £500k from the sale to market a lightweight 'RS' thread bare Tweed for spirited wearing in the Leichtbau, it's what new owners will require don't you know!

Regards

Tarquin964rst

ORIGINAL: Melv

Lets open this query up a bit......

"I have been a PCGB member for many years but my passion has always been the 356. I started looking at early 911's lately and ended up with a 1973 Carrera 2.7 RS lightweight which opened my eyes to this amazing breed of Porsches. I am now looking for a 964 RS and/or a 993 RS lightweights and wondered if you could advise on value for money, appreciation potential etc. as a comparison."
 

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