Do 987's Look and Drive & Better Than 981's?

[SarlechS]

Hi Guys,

Mileage is getting on with my 987 now (99k) and although i'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't have the "common" issues these cars tend to have, i am thinking of moving it on for something a little newer! I bought my 2006 Cayman when it was 7 years old and its a 2006 for 17k (52k on the clock), the 981S's in similar condition to my 987 back then seem to be selling for whooping 31-33k which is crazy considering its still to this date a 7 year old car!

I think they look fantastic on the road but i only really like them in GTS guise, really looking for opinions from you all on which you consider to be the most beautiful car? and if you have driven both, which did you prefer and why? I've read many forums on PH where people have moved from 987 to 981 and sold on the car after 6months because they didn't get that special feeling or they didnt get on with the electric steering

Keen to learn from your experiences before i make the same move...

Thanks!

 

[Motorhead]

Although I've been running a 987.2 CS for more than 10-years I reckon that the 981/718-series is a cracking looking car - the best of Porsche's sports cars. The 911's design really hasn't moved on from the 997 ... it's just got much bigger.! Having said that, I rather like the curvy lines of the 987-series and have a feeling that they could stand the test of time better than the sharper lines of the later-series cars.

Although I've driven quite a few 981s, it didn't make me want to make a change. The Gen2 CS has the same DFI engine as the 981, and as far as I can recall the same transmission, and I prefer the 987's steering and brake feel (hydraulic PAS and less servo-assistance respectively). The interior certainly is much smarter-looking, but I've never been a fan of the centre console button-fest; an ergonomic nightmare in my book. Plus, the electronic parking brake location and operation is a joke - whoever designed it should be shot.! All-in-all, I actually prefer the simplicity of the 987s interior layout.

I've not driven a 987.1 CS but you could always try a 987.2 CS and potentially save yourself a heap of cash if you can bag one for the low £20ks.

Jeff

 

[AndrewCS]

Go view and drive them before reading too much into others` personal opinions / preferences …

There are several critical areas / options that contribute to how one feels about them. I went from a 987.2 Cayman R manual to a 981 Cayman S PDK … the 981 was / is far superior … apart from holding it`s value !!!

I did 9,000 miles in my year with the CR and 20,000 miles in three years with the 981 CS … covering the same roads and conditions.

 

[Motorhead]

Just to come back on this, I agree wholeheartedly with Andrew that you need to try-before-you-buy. After all you're buying it for yourself and not based upon other peoples' opinions whose requirements, likes and dislikes are very unlikely to coincide exactly with your own.

Depending upon your budget - and if you're open-minded about the F-4T engine - an early 718 C or CS may be possible. A cracking car I'm sure, whose steering and chassis has moved up a notch from the 981. Once again, a test drive would confirm whether or not it would suit.

Jeff

 

[SarlechS]

appreciate that guys, i've got myself booked in for a test drive later this week (981S) wanted to get myself in a 718S to compare the differences but didn't want to look like a test driver/tyre kicker. On top of that i think the 718s will depreciate much quicker than the 981's it seems to be quite evident looking at the used prices already also not a huge fan of the F4T so they dont seem that attractive to me as a long termer despite how nice they look.

This thread was more to see what the general consensus was from the community here as i know a lot of people tend to move through the different iterations and have had proper experience with them so can comment, just looking to hear your experiences.

 

[Briangb7]

Hi SarlechS.

Yes you do need to test drive as we all have our own opinions (and budget).

For what it is worth I had a very nice 987.2 which was my first ever Porsche. I quickly decided that a GTS would be my next car. I didn’t expect it to be so soon though as looking through the sites one day I discovered (courtesy of Ashgood Porsche) a high spec, rare colour 981 GTS.

The rest as they say is history. Took the plunge and so pleased I did. Obviously a bit more modern than the 987.2. Mine has PASM and the ride is definitely better. I am not convinced about the electronic steering. Nothing wrong with it but it does feel ‘different’ to the 987. Not a deal breaker though. I love the looks of the 981. I can’t park it without turning around to have a look as I walk away. It was a big price difference but I feel it was worth it. I am taking it on the Porsche Club track day at Goodwood next week. Looking forward to that. Oh! Did I mention the sound. Get it over 3000 rpm and it starts to sing, and the crackles on over run are amazing. This is no doubt the PSE which I did not have on the 987. So, wider, longer, lower, bigger wheels, a little more power, a better ride!! Just my opinion so don’t let me convince you. The 987 is a fantastic car but the 981 is even better.

Regards, Brian

 

[Motorhead]

On top of that i think the 718s will depreciate much quicker than the 981's it seems to be quite evident looking at the used prices already also not a huge fan of the F4T so they dont seem that attractive to me as a long termer despite how nice they look.

Apart from the unpredictable fallout from Covid, with all that's happening in electric vehicle development at the moment (Porsche included) I think you'd need a crystal ball to second-guess what's going to happen to prices long term, especially when mileages mount up and repair and maintenance costs become important factors. Whatever you buy is going to depreciate, and if you're planning long-term ownership depreciation is less important; and a newer, lower-mileage car could cost less longer term.

Jeff

 

[PaulJ]

As others have said, try them all before you decide, but I offer this for what it's worth. In 2007 I bought a CS and kept it for less that 3 years and in 2011 I did the same with a CR. In 2014 I bought a 981 GTS and am still very happy with it. (That said, the new GTS 4.0 does look good! [])

 

[Derek H]

I moved from a 2006 987 Cayman S after 6 years to a 2013 981 Cayman S which I've owned for a bit over 2 years now. Both high spec cars but to be honest, overall I preferred the 987.

The biggest disappointment with the 981 is the PDK gearbox, followed by the loss of steering feel and the overall sanitised feel of the car. My family car is an auto but the Cayman is purely for fun and the PDK takes some of that away. I've driven it in manual and Sport / Sport Plus modes but it's still too detached in terms of engagement for me. The PSE on the 981 is too contrived and juvenile and frankly embarrasses me so I usually switch it off. On the up side, the 981 with PASM on 20" wheels is more compliant and natural feeling than the 987 PASM on 18"s and of course the tech is better and the 981 is noticeably quicker. It handles very well (mine has PTV) but my 987, especially after optimising the geo, was just as good (road use only on both cars). But overall the 981, whilst very competent, is just too lacking in soul. It's really difficult to put my finger on it but I just haven't bonded with it anything like as much as the 987, which I was very sad to sell. But I'm pretty sure when the 981 goes, I won't miss it.

The trouble is, what to replace it with. I previously spent ages looking for a Cayman R but never found one in the spec I wanted and gave up when I realised it doesn't exist. But I think that would be my ideal Porsche. I've been looking at recent Lotus Elise/Exige Sport/Cup cars which look tempting as they sit between a Cayman and my Son's Caterham 420R which is a hoot and very engaging but just too impractical.

 

[AndrewCS]

Hi Derek,

Good feedback … out of interest what kind of driving are you doing in the cars ?

B roads - good and poor surfaces in all weathers` ? / How long do you spend behind the wheel - four hours non stop on B roads ? … etc

I ask for comparison with my own experiences of a CR manual and a 981 CS PDK …

I agree with you on the 981`s PSE, I ended up hardly using it … got to enjoy the more `linear` note without. In saying that, even without selection when backing off from high revs in 2nd and 3rd it would still `pop`.

 

[Derek H]

Hi Derek,

Good feedback … out of interest what kind of driving are you doing in the cars ?

B roads - good and poor surfaces in all weathers` ? / How long do you spend behind the wheel - four hours non stop on B roads ? … etc

I ask for comparison with my own experiences of a CR manual and a 981 CS PDK …

I agree with you on the 981`s PSE, I ended up hardly using it … got to enjoy the more `linear` note without. In saying that, even without selection when backing off from high revs in 2nd and 3rd it would still `pop`.

Hi Andrew, most of my driving is country A & B roads - typically Cotswolds, some excursions into Wales, occasionally further afield. Fun/weekend car only, no commuting these days. Surface quality is pretty variable so I don't get to use PASM Sport setting much, though I recall a great weekend trip a few years ago in the 987 to North Wales on some great driving roads where I was able to keep PASM Sport on much of the time. My typical Sunday run duration is 1-2 hours and I don't tend to go out just for a drive if I know it's going to be wet, unless I'm going to a particular event or place. The longest run in the 981 was to Spa for the Classic last year and it's great for that sort of journey but we did the same event a couple of years before in the 987 and that was just as good. I'm keeping an eye on lockdown easing and the NW500 or a run down to the Italian lakes or similar could be on the cards once the quarantine restrictions are removed. I'd rather do that sort of longer trip in either of the Caymans than say a Lotus, purely from the luggage practicality point of view, which is why my sights were set on the Cayman R. But I'm a bit too hung up on my own "essential" spec list items such as full leather and bi-xenon headlights on top of the usual R "essentials" which has been the barrier to getting one up to now. It's possible I might keep the Cayman for longer trips and add a Lotus or Caterham for day trips and track days as early retirement is on the cards soon.

You're right about the PSE in the 981, definitely more linear when switched off but still a few pops at high revs. I had a modified Carnewal exhaust on my 987 and that was great most of the time as it less obnoxious due to the absence of the contrived pops and crackles of the PSE on the 981.

I also think that my lack of hands-on interaction with the 981 in terms of maintenance compared with the 987 is also part of the reason I'm not bonding with it. I did everything on my 987 but apart from a failed valve lift solenoid on the 981 which I DIY'd, I had my local OPC do the Minor last year to keep the Porsche service history going with a view to selling in the forseeable future. But my old 987 lives about 3 miles away and I'm looking forward to helping my friend with it's upcoming service!

 

[mr pg]

If you make it to the Alps/Dolomites you'll be able to PASM all the time as roads are much better. Use it loads in our 981 CS.

 

[mj2k]

Hi SarlechS.

Yes you do need to test drive as we all have our own opinions (and budget).

For what it is worth I had a very nice 987.2 which was my first ever Porsche. I quickly decided that a GTS would be my next car. I didn’t expect it to be so soon though as looking through the sites one day I discovered (courtesy of Ashgood Porsche) a high spec, rare colour 981 GTS.

The rest as they say is history. Took the plunge and so pleased I did. Obviously a bit more modern than the 987.2. Mine has PASM and the ride is definitely better. I am not convinced about the electronic steering. Nothing wrong with it but it does feel ‘different’ to the 987. Not a deal breaker though. I love the looks of the 981. I can’t park it without turning around to have a look as I walk away. It was a big price difference but I feel it was worth it. I am taking it on the Porsche Club track day at Goodwood next week. Looking forward to that. Oh! Did I mention the sound. Get it over 3000 rpm and it starts to sing, and the crackles on over run are amazing. This is no doubt the PSE which I did not have on the 987. So, wider, longer, lower, bigger wheels, a little more power, a better ride!! Just my opinion so don’t let me convince you. The 987 is a fantastic car but the 981 is even better.

Regards, Brian

Dangerous those folks ay Ashgood aren't they! My Z4M weekender along with my wife's E89 went a year ago to get her a 981 Boxster. 12 months on & decided I'd had enough with my M4 as just too hard to enjoy without dying, so traded in against a 981 Cayman GTS, never looked back, love it & more confident instantly when pushing on than the M4 ever gave me that feeling of.

100% an NA guy, so not sure what comes next, when budgets allow; although cant think of what my GTS is missing to be fair.

 

[GordonT]

Probably just PCGB membership! They are outstanding and I cannot think of anything I’d prefer, really. There’s always the GT4 debate but I think I can resist that.

Going back to PSE, it’s perhaps a good time to leave it switched off and maintain a low profile.

I may have commented on this before but the thing that bugs me slightly is that the “double declutch blip” of the throttle comes at the wrong time I.e. after gear selection not before. I quite often switch PSE off in Super Sport.

 

[mj2k]

PSE feels so much more refined than my M4 with Comp Exhaust, although I do turn it off on a drive for horses / people walking dogs / in towns. Need to find a friend to drive past me on WOT with the exhaust open to really hear it. My JCW with BTE was brutally loud when I discovered it as a pedestrian the first time, real eye opener.

Not noticed the timing of the blip being wrong...hate forums sometimes for learning things I didn't need to know!

 

[GordonT]

Sorry about that!

 

[AndrewCS]

Hi Derek,

Good feedback … out of interest what kind of driving are you doing in the cars ?

B roads - good and poor surfaces in all weathers` ? / How long do you spend behind the wheel - four hours non stop on B roads ? … etc

I ask for comparison with my own experiences of a CR manual and a 981 CS PDK …

I agree with you on the 981`s PSE, I ended up hardly using it … got to enjoy the more `linear` note without. In saying that, even without selection when backing off from high revs in 2nd and 3rd it would still `pop`.

Hi Andrew, most of my driving is country A & B roads - typically Cotswolds, some excursions into Wales, occasionally further afield. Fun/weekend car only, no commuting these days. Surface quality is pretty variable so I don't get to use PASM Sport setting much, though I recall a great weekend trip a few years ago in the 987 to North Wales on some great driving roads where I was able to keep PASM Sport on much of the time. My typical Sunday run duration is 1-2 hours and I don't tend to go out just for a drive if I know it's going to be wet, unless I'm going to a particular event or place. The longest run in the 981 was to Spa for the Classic last year and it's great for that sort of journey but we did the same event a couple of years before in the 987 and that was just as good. I'm keeping an eye on lockdown easing and the NW500 or a run down to the Italian lakes or similar could be on the cards once the quarantine restrictions are removed. I'd rather do that sort of longer trip in either of the Caymans than say a Lotus, purely from the luggage practicality point of view, which is why my sights were set on the Cayman R. But I'm a bit too hung up on my own "essential" spec list items such as full leather and bi-xenon headlights on top of the usual R "essentials" which has been the barrier to getting one up to now. It's possible I might keep the Cayman for longer trips and add a Lotus or Caterham for day trips and track days as early retirement is on the cards soon.

You're right about the PSE in the 981, definitely more linear when switched off but still a few pops at high revs. I had a modified Carnewal exhaust on my 987 and that was great most of the time as it less obnoxious due to the absence of the contrived pops and crackles of the PSE on the 981.

I also think that my lack of hands-on interaction with the 981 in terms of maintenance compared with the 987 is also part of the reason I'm not bonding with it. I did everything on my 987 but apart from a failed valve lift solenoid on the 981 which I DIY'd, I had my local OPC do the Minor last year to keep the Porsche service history going with a view to selling in the forseeable future. But my old 987 lives about 3 miles away and I'm looking forward to helping my friend with it's upcoming service!

Thank you Derek,

I drive in all weathers in much the same type of areas, my best memory so far has been the CS in the pouring rain - in the Highlands - on the Michelin PS4S tyres … outstanding feel, grip - performance !

I tend to run out for two to four hours, the longer the better as the cars` feel definitely improves over time. Especially the tyres, plus one`s confidence becomes more dialled in.

I`ll list the main differences between the CR and CS ...

- 981 better looking but does depend on the colour / wheel combination

- 981 interior more spacious, clear and modern

- 981 Sports Plus seat more comfortable than the CR Sports Plus seat (no buckets)

- 981 standard headlights far improved over the standard CR units !

- 981 far more comfortable on short and long trips

- 981 brakes have a better feel, discounting the CR`s initial `dead` travel aspect

- 981 PASM and 20" wheels a better combination for all conditions - CR feels it should be restricted to good surfaces only

- CR steering feel `goes light` after a few hours, geometry was set pp factory but with slightly more front negative camber

I put this down to the tyres (PS2`s) / tyre pressures and then ran them lower, slight improvement

- CR manual vs CS PDK … PDK enhances one`s ability to extend the car

- CR on track at Anglesey on Cup 2`s was superb, only let down by `the driver` !

The CR enjoys a hallowed `used` position - much better value retention … whilst I only ran it for a year and 9,000 miles I enjoyed the CS far, far more.

If you`re up for the NW500 or even the NW250, let me know …

 

[Derek H]

Hi Andrew,

I do agree about the feel of a car improving on longer runs as you get dialed in. My 981 also has the MPS4S tyres which are great, though I can't really say I test them to the limit! You mentioned you preferred the 981 brake feel over the 987. I preferred the reduced servo assist on the 987 but braking performance is impressive in the 981. Did you find any difference in fade resistance between the two?

I was about to sign up for a spare place on a driver training day at Millbrook when lockdown kicked in so waiting for that to open up again. I'm feeling like I've got stuck in a bit of a rut with the 981 and really need to use it more, especially for some road trips. I'm doing about 4K/year currently.

Over the last few days I've started planning a Pyrennes trip for September with my wife and some friends in their 997 after reading some inspiring car forum threads so it looks like that might be a reset opportunity with the 981! The N260 and surrounding roads on the Spanish side sound fantastic and apparently are much quieter than the Alps or Highlands in the summer. Two up with luggage on those roads looks like it will give the brakes a decent work out!

A Scotland trip is very much on the agenda but my impression is that the summer months are not ideal for traffic (and maybe midges?!), perhaps especially this summer with more people holidaying in the UK. What advice would you give on timing for trying to balance weather, driving freedom and tourist attractions being open? I'm guessing April/May or late September/October but maybe route selection is a factor too?

Meanwhile, I've got my 987 "fix" lined up for Friday as I'm helping my friend service my old car!

 

[AndrewCS]

Hi Andrew,

I do agree about the feel of a car improving on longer runs as you get dialed in. My 981 also has the MPS4S tyres which are great, though I can't really say I test them to the limit! You mentioned you preferred the 981 brake feel over the 987. I preferred the reduced servo assist on the 987 but braking performance is impressive in the 981. Did you find any difference in fade resistance between the two?

I was about to sign up for a spare place on a driver training day at Millbrook when lockdown kicked in so waiting for that to open up again. I'm feeling like I've got stuck in a bit of a rut with the 981 and really need to use it more, especially for some road trips. I'm doing about 4K/year currently.

Over the last few days I've started planning a Pyrennes trip for September with my wife and some friends in their 997 after reading some inspiring car forum threads so it looks like that might be a reset opportunity with the 981! The N260 and surrounding roads on the Spanish side sound fantastic and apparently are much quieter than the Alps or Highlands in the summer. Two up with luggage on those roads looks like it will give the brakes a decent work out!

A Scotland trip is very much on the agenda but my impression is that the summer months are not ideal for traffic (and maybe midges?!), perhaps especially this summer with more people holidaying in the UK. What advice would you give on timing for trying to balance weather, driving freedom and tourist attractions being open? I'm guessing April/May or late September/October but maybe route selection is a factor too?

Meanwhile, I've got my 987 "fix" lined up for Friday as I'm helping my friend service my old car!

Never had the brakes near fade on either model, even with the CR on track … the view that it required a different master cylinder (GT3 ?) did not hold water with me. The more one `used` them the better the feel became, many people don`t use `sportscar` brakes enough.

Aye, I recognise the `rut` syndrome … having the Highlands on my doorstep and flexibility (prior to virus) in my work / lifestyle helped offset it ! Still … it does linger and leads in many cases to a change / search for a new inspiration / set of wheels.

European trip sounds good, I`m not much for touring `all over` … more of settling in one base and exploring daily from there. Have had a few great weekends out of Oban and Contin (N. West of Inverness)

https://ascari.net/en/... would be worth a trip to Spain for, considered it a while back … one day !

You`ve got the timings spot on for visiting `us` … but delay a while as it`ll be packed once all travel restrictions are withdrawn. Replace it with track time … !

Enjoy the maintenance …