Dual mass flywheel failure

[grahamhaines]

I have read with interest members' reports of failures of the RMS. I have a 2001 Boxster S with 33000 miles on the clock. My car was seviced 2 weeks ago and a failure of the RMS was diagnosed. On stripping down to replace the seal a "worn" dual mass flywheel was diagnosed. The failure of the flywheel meant it was out of balance and the problem would only get worse with time. The flywheel was replaced at a cost of £580 + VAT for the part. I complained to the OPC as I considered this to be a manufacturing fault and they agreed to contact Porsche. No surprise Porsche disagree. The failure of a flywheel after 33000 miles is not the engineering "excellence" I expect of Porsche. Any other owners with a similar story?

 

[mojo]

I had the DMF replaced on my Boxster and it was done under warranty....

 

[JCB..]

Mine was replaced at the car's first service 12,000 miles as they were doing the RMS.

I never noticed a problem with either but as it was a warranty issue it wasn't a big deal.

I would think that Porsche's stance is the fact that the car is seven years old rather than only having 33k miles on it so it's not totally unreasonable.

 

[Geoff_Fields]

I was under the impression that the DMF issues suffered by the 964 were long ago resolved. This thread seems to suggest otherwise. How many other owners have suffered this failure and is it limited to the Boxster?

 

[sue11sam]

No , but it is fairly scandelous , I cannot beleive , that a flywheel degrades with age,what causes flywheel degradation is miles , and /or driving style[] , if you cane the car putting lots of heat into the flywheel, you will cause it to wear quickly and knock out clutches too , excessive heat will also cause the flywheel to distort . I am suggesting of course that you would not do such a thing[][] which only leaves design fault/faulty material as the only other option IMO

ORIGINAL: JCB..

Mine was replaced at the car's first service 12,000 miles as they were doing the RMS.

I never noticed a problem with either but as it was a warranty issue it wasn't a big deal.

I would think that Porsche's stance is the fact that the car is seven years old rather than only having 33k miles on it so it's not totally unreasonable.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: Geoff997

I was under the impression that the DMF issues suffered by the 964 were long ago resolved. This thread seems to suggest otherwise. How many other owners have suffered this failure and is it limited to the Boxster?

I don't think 3 reported cases signals an epidemic. []

 

[Mark_Bennett]

It's the first 3 I've heard of...[8|]

 

[colinbythesea]

ORIGINAL: sue11sam

No , but it is fairly scandelous , I cannot beleive , that a flywheel degrades with age,what causes flywheel degradation is miles , and /or driving style[] ,

I am no expert but my assumption is a low mileage car is probably doing lots of short journeys on cold mechanicals possibly with lots of gear changes so this would increase wear on any part. The alternative is a car that does longer journeys but stands around a lot between them. Then corrosion on parts can be a problem. Look at how quickly a car can get corrosion on the brake disks when left standing.

 

[Geoff_Fields]

John, I didn't use the word "epidemic" I'm only interested in ascertaining true scale of any failures.

Mark, that was the sort of response I was after, thanks.

 

[sue11sam]

you are correct the points you raise will contribute , but I presume we are talking about Mr average in terms of the journey make up, my point is what imput the driver has in this scenario.

ORIGINAL: colinbythesea

ORIGINAL: sue11sam

No , but it is fairly scandelous , I cannot beleive , that a flywheel degrades with age,what causes flywheel degradation is miles , and /or driving style[] ,

I am no expert but my assumption is a low mileage car is probably doing lots of short journeys on cold mechanicals possibly with lots of gear changes so this would increase wear on any part. The alternative is a car that does longer journeys but stands around a lot between them. Then corrosion on parts can be a problem. Look at how quickly a car can get corrosion on the brake disks when left standing.

 

[JCB..]

ORIGINAL: Geoff997

John, I didn't use the word "epidemic" I'm only interested in ascertaining true scale of any failures.

Mark, that was the sort of response I was after, thanks.

You're right Geoff you didn't use the word epidemic - I did. []

 

[jcorallo]

Graham - did you yourself suspect that the DMF was out of balance before having the RMS done? Did the car vibrate at a certain RPM which might indicate an out of balance DMF?

Jules

 

[grahamhaines]

I had noticed some resonance on revving the car when stationary but I did not suspect there was a major problem until it was diagnosed by the OPC. Now it has been replaced I can tell the difference. The clutch is also lighter (the clutch was not replaced). On driving other Boxsters I always felt that my clutch was heavy.

Regarding the points raised about the frequency of use of the vehicle, I accept with low useage some problems might occur (seals, bearings etc) but not a failure of the DMF.

 

[berty987]

Replacing DMF's is a difficult subject. I spoke to the technical dept at LuK (the manufacturers/ suppliers of Porsche DMF's) when I was told I needed a new DMF and clutch at 26K on my 987S. The DMF is a very complex bit of kit and the front and rear covers are connected by a series of internal springs designed to allow movement in the cases of extreme load such as putting the car in 1st at 80mph and take up shock loads as the clutch is released.. Normally a DMF is considered unrepariable if the grease inside dries out and the spring tension is lost , or the two elemets allow undue slip. Having looked at the removed DMF from my car , the spring tension seems reasonable but there is only a 15 degree tolerance for the movement of the two plates. The idea of it going out of balance seems difficult to understand as its a sealed unit from the factory.

 

[bilabonic]

I burnt my clutch out and had to have the DMF repaired. This was all through my own doing though, had 59k on the car and the DMF ended up 'blue' and warped.

I am still worried though as it still 'smells' like the clutch is not right on my car, this is easy notice in the confines of my garage. Should i be concerned abouth this 'clutch smell' after only doing 30 miles since replacement ?

Thanks

 

[GOOFY]

I had DMF replaced at 24,000 miles. I must add though I drive through stop start traffic in London. The main cause of DMF failure I believe is due to overheating - which warps the flywheel. This casues the slight uneveness when taking the drive as the clutch engages. So if you feel vibration as the clutch is near its biting point and the revs low, it probably means DMS could be nearing its end of its useful life. A worn clutch can be checked by engaging reverse, handbrake on, and releasing clutch slowly. If the clutch slips and engine does not stall - then cltch on way out. After my DMS was replaced the clutch engagement was smoother due to even flywheel. The heaviness of the clutch is not caused by DMS as this is due to clutch release springs tiring. DMS is simply two flywheels connected by built in springs. It helps the engine and transmission absorb gearchanges, sudden shocks to transmission, and aids synchromesh. I think Boxster DMS' warp as we do like revving the engines on take up. DMS failures also occur in lots of other everyday cars that have adopted them - new Golf GTi's / V6's etc, so it is not a manufacturing fault. Just one of those costs to absorb every 30k + miles say !