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ECU remap

jonathanw

PCGB Member
Member
I have been in contact with a firm called Tourquingbhp based in Cambridge , initially to remap my 3.0 diesel Jag Xf and Discovery. They state that they can remap my gen2 C2S PDK from 385 to 420 bhp at a cost of about £650.
Does anybody know this company and whether it is worth upgrading my 997. As for the turbo diesels the benefits are well known and I will probably get them rechipped.
Any views would be welcome.
Thanks
 
Jonathan Looks like a youngish company enthusistic and keen to tune. A word of caution though, real gains on a normally aspirated Porsche, staying within the saftey parameters of the engine software get you about 15-25 bhp but a good remap it does significantly improve driveability. DMS and REVO are porsche sepcialists with a lot more epxreeince of tuning existing ECU's for Porsche and are realistic in their claims, dyno gains of 15bhp +/- tend to be the norm. To get more requires significant changes to the exhaust system and/or induction system. It might be these guys have hit on something but the odds are on if so, the parameter changes will go outside the safe limits for the ECU software....... exposing the engine to a higher level for isk than the designers were happy with. Takes your money and your chock ice. Large power gains from an ECU change tend to be achieved by replacinbg the standard ECU with a new custom made chip (GIAC etc) with its own attendent pro's and con's. One of the theoretical beenefits of going DFI is more parameters to play with for ECU tuning but the general consensus so far has been ts harder to get big gains without physical changes as well. Estabished tuning companies are going induction and exahaust routes plus remap to get claimed outputs of 420-ish (FVD, Cargraphic etc) Having said that it might be a good remap which will definately make your car feel much faster. The next gotcha is typically a Gen 2 will dyno at about 339bhp using DIN correction which is a fairly conservative method - the car is stationary so you can't get the airflow the car will get on the road, so the power figures will be down. Secondly the cars power figures are obtained with the engine on a bench, without the rescritions of airflow, lossy mechanical links , exhausts etc, so the figures do tend to drop a bit with the enigne in the car. Before I get roundly beaten by others, other correction methods will get you a higher number unfortuanately they can also be used with some tweaking by less scrupulous dyno centres to ensure you get the figures you want to see. So the likely answer is it takes quite some work to get a genunine 420bhp on the road. What I have learned is a need to be cautious on claimed performance gians, the best measure is to dyno the car with each change at the same centre and look at the relative gains which give a more realistic indication of on raod performance gains. Last thought - There is a trade off between Torque and Power here - the comments above assume you still want good torque figures int the low to mid range to give ggod driveability and in gear acceleration. You can sacrifice mid range torque to get quite high power outputs but at the expense of driveability, you try to remap the engine to give it top end power, the compromise being you have much less torque lower down the rev range - making the car slower in real world driivng but giving you a nice top end kcik for track work. Hope this helps. If you do end up gettting a remap from thses guys I'd been keen to know your thoughts and expreinces with it.
 
Porsche dont programme the ECU to make the engine deliver 100% of its potential because they dont want warranty claims and they need to build in a saftey factor of say 20 to 30% to allow for the natural variability in the engine components/materials they use. The reputable tuners know this and push the boundaries and still leave a saftey factor (its lower but still there). You can squeeze more out of the engine but you risk a failure because all the safety factopr has been used up. The new DFI egine is as yet unproven at higher HP levels so if you push the HP up you are taking a risk. In short you pays your money and you take your chances
 
ORIGINAL: bobfair The new DFI egine is as yet unproven at higher HP levels so if you push the HP up you are taking a risk. In short you pays your money and you take your chances
Er - apart from in the Gen 2 turbo![;)][:D] - which works very well, I can tell you!
 
ORIGINAL: tscaptain
ORIGINAL: bobfair The new DFI egine is as yet unproven at higher HP levels so if you push the HP up you are taking a risk. In short you pays your money and you take your chances
Er - apart from in the Gen 2 turbo![;)][:D] - which works very well, I can tell you!
Tuning turbo's is much easier and you get much higher rewards in terms of power and torque hikes. There is an underlying temperamental feature of the TT design, the turbines need replacing if you go over about 650bhp for both Metzler and non Metzler engine as the VVT stuff can go du-lally so the after market belt and braces solution has been a bigger turbo and set of turbines........ As per TS, so far the new TFI engine is seen to be a bit of a cracker, unless you are old school and believe nothing without 20 years plus pedigree is worth using, follow the logic and no new engine is ever developed so we'd still be running wood powered stove cars............[8|] Cue some rather strong views methinks.........[:-] Am I trying to get a debate going, of course not..........[8D]
 
Bob Can you recommend a reputable tuner and can an OPC detect without putting a car on a dynamometer if an engine has been chipped?
 
Jonathan, you may have a problem with the PDK if you put it on a rolling road. I tried it once as part of a region event and the car wouldn't play at all - in fact it came up with a whole load of fault codes that they had to clear before I could drive it home! The main problem seems to be that the front rollers would be stationary (on this particular one) and the car didn't like the fact that the back wheels were turning and the front ones were not.
 
Now now Mr Moderator we were talking about tuning normally aspirated cars not Turbos which as Tom says respond more effectively to a remap as you can turn up the boost. This is what Porsche have done with the GT 2 RS and the Turbo S I am suspicious when a tuner tells me I can hand over £600 and with no physical changes my C2S is almost as powerful as a GT 3. By comparison my Gen 2 GT 3 is the fourth model in that series and has been developed by Porsche over 10 years and produces just 435HP. Of course such gains to a C2S with a simple remap may well be possible but I suspect you would be using up a lot of that safety factor that Porsche leaves on the table. Jonathan my only experience with a remap was with DMS on a 997 Turbo. I thought they did a very good job and took great care in fitting a new exhaust. DMS claim an additional 25HP for their Carrera S remap but I suspect that makes the car a little more responsive and sharper to drive. Tom has had his normally aspirated car remapped and has commented many times on this forum as to the results. Alec has been very happy with his Parr/Cargraphic remap but once again thats a Turbo. With regards to a remap being detected by Porsche DMS claim that the Porsche diagnostic equipment can not detect their remap which may be true but you need to be careful when you take your car into an OPC because they can easily reset the ECU back to the original settings as part of their normal diagnostic checks which is what happened to me. No doubt the DFI guys will find something in this note to attack us old Metzger fans. I am all for progress but I prefer the role of the Settler rather than the Pioneer who has to take all the initial risks. I also like to keep a bit of that safety factor in reserve.
 
ORIGINAL: bobfair Now now Mr Moderator we were talking about tuning normally aspirated cars not Turbos which as Tom says respond more effectively to a remap as you can turn up the boost. This is what Porsche have done with the GT 2 RS and the Turbo S
Merely pointing out that the "new" DFI engine has been "proven" at higher BHP levels? Is there much different to the internals of the turbo to the Carrera engines? Blowed if I know the answer![;)]
 
I suspect there are some considerable differences but some one must know all the details. Whats the rev limit on a C2S and what is it on a Turbo and why is it significantly lower on the Turbo?
 
If you had revo re-map and then had your car serviced by your opc, they normally update your ecu,clearing the upgrade but the specialist who downloaded the revo upgrade will re-load it free of charge for as long as you own the car Paul
 

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