Electric Windows

[lesworth]

Morning all.

I thought I'd take a look at the electric windows last night. Although the passenger window works fine with the switch on the passenger door, the passenger window switch on the drivers door does nothing (driver winodw works fine). The first thing I tries was to swap the two drivers door switches over. The same result so I guess that rules out a faulty switch. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the problem could be?

I assume that all the contacts on the drivers door switches are OK as otherwise the circuit would not be completed? Or is it a bit more complicated than that?!

I just did a forum search and found a very useful wiring diagram which details the wire colours. One of the wires was definately blue so I suspect some work has been carried out in the past. Also the metal 'frame' that the switch clicks into are warped and corroded on both drivers door switches.

I'm slowly finding my way around my car, thanks to all your help!

 

[Guest]

Hi Les
I think the first thing you need to establish is whether or not a voltage appears at the motor when the switch is operated,this would quickly rule out any switch or wire continuity problems providing you're getting e healthy 12-14volts. If no voltage is present then you need to start doing some continuity checks on the supply wiring to eliminate any chance of a trapped or broken wire.Chances are this would most likely appear where the rubber sheath enters the door from the main body.Once you know the wire colours supplying the motor you could always work back to the next connection point and look for your voltage there with the switch depressed.
For any continuity checks I would advise removing the fuse for that particular circuit but replce it when looking for voltages(naturally).Obviously you will have to beg,borrow or steal a multi meter and preferably have some unwitting individual to assist in operating the switch and any other "third hand" tasks which will arise.
Hope all this blather is of some use/sense to you,good luck.
Ian(CTJM)

 

[lesworth]

Thanks Ian. Looking at the wiring diagram, it appears that wires leading from the drivers door passenger window switch to the Passenger door passenger window switch and then from there to the passenger window motor. If the passenger door switch works, would this rule out the passenger window motor and the wiring between both passenger window switches?

Please forgive my ignorance of electrics! The wiring diagram I'm looking at can be found below:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=64237&mpage=1&key=window%2Cswitch&#64237

 

[Guest]

Les,
I've had this problem. I temperarly fixed it by disconnecting the wire from the drivers side and re-position the live feed on the passenger switch. This then enable the window up & down, but only from the pass. switch. I suspect this problem could be between the pass door and the spot where the electrics from the door "plug" into the body. Porsche have round cable plugs - if you open the door and look up under the top of wing/door cavity you'll see the power cables terminating into the body. I've yet to check this, but this would be a likely place for a poor connection/dirt/corrosion, etc.

 

[Guest]

Hi Les
Sorry for misinterpreting your original post in so far as your window motor is obviously sound. However, this would suggest that a possible break could exist in the return feed from the drivers door switch,possibly at aforementioned door/body junction.Again using the voltage measurement test I would suggest working back (or forward if you prefer) to determine as to where exactly you are losing the supply voltage.Sorry if I'm assuming too much as I have to work with these problems,albeit on an industrial scale every day!
Hope this sheds a little extra light.
Ian (CTJM)

 

[lesworth]

Thanks again Ian and Peter. I'm trying to source a multi meter so I can start checking. One question I have to help me understand how the electrics work. In the diagram I referred to above, it seems that there are two wires leading from the drivers door passenger swicth to the passenger door switch and then from there, two wires to the passenger motor (and the brown lead which I assume is an earth lead?). It looks to me like the power for the passenger door switch and passenger door motor is coming via this route. If there was a fault in either of the wires between the two switches, surely the passenger door switch wouldn't work either? Is the circuit a bit more complex than that (I'm thinking back to my primary school days with two wires a bulb and a battery!).

 

[Guest]

Hi again Les
Just been studying the electrical drawings and system works as follows;power is fed(+VOLTAGE) initially to the drivers side switches (red/blue on my 87 model).Power is then fed from the drivers passenger switch to the passenger side switch by 2 wires 1)red/black & 2)red/white(87 model again).
From the switch ,voltage (+) is permanently supplied to either side of the motor field windings and when the switch is operated it breaks one of these supplies and at the same time supplies a ground (-voltage) thus completing the windings circuit and operating the motor.Reversing the polarity of the field windings i.e switch used in the opposite position causes the motor to operate in the opposite direction.
As your passenger switch is working ok then it must have both its +voltage feeds and the break is most likely between the drivers side passenger switch and passenger side ground connection,-voltage(brown all model years) .Hope I haven't confused you too much and this helps in some way.
Ian.(CTJM)

 

[lesworth]

Superb. That makes perfect sense to me. I'll be having a look tonight.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Guest]

Glad that was of some use to you Les,by the way nice looking Carrera you have there.Pretty much identical to my 87 targa except you appear to have the sport options (front and rear spoilers), which I'm hoping to obtain and fit at some point in the not too distant future.What year is your targa and does your top fit sufficiently well so as to give you minimum wind noise? Mines not too good and think I will probably have a good look at this over the winter months,new front seal should do the trick as the top is in itself is in good condition.
Best of luck with the windows.
Ian(CTJM)

 

[lesworth]

Ian, its an '88 and had the sport option from new. I got it last month and still have to look in the garage from time to time to remind myself I've got one! I havent been able to drive it as much as I'd like as one of the anti rool bar brackets has snapped and I dont want to push my luck. I'm just waiting to have a new one welded on. The targa doesnt leak but I think someone has tried to work on it at some point. It sticks up a little at the front which generates some noise and the headlining droops a bit.

Anyway, enough of that....I had a good look at the wondows on Friday. It seems that the fault lies between both passenger window switchs and is not related to the earth. I pried off the passenger door switch and there is evidence of some electrical butchery! I guess a previous owner decided it would be easir to give the passenger door switch its own power supply. I attempted to trace the wires from the doors but to be honest, looking in th luggage compartment at the top, I've no idea where to start. I think its one of those things I'll have to live with. At least both windows work....[]

 

[Guest]

Jacob,
If you "wind" the window motor to the fully open postion: can you push the glass panel down with your hand.
The glass panel sits in a track; this track is attached to varoius levers and mtr. But, the glass only sits tight in this track - gravity does the rest.
Lube the widow felts with clear silicone grease - the glass should slid easy.

 

[zwhitea]

You may find that the Channel which grips the base of the window has just rotted and no onger grips the window securly.. This happened to both of mine... Replacements can be found from places like Type-911, along with the rubber insert as ell... Or you could try and just glue the window in the channel with silicone if you to save yourself a few quid..

http://www.type-911.co.uk/images/general/channel.jpg

For what ever reason the Coupe version is half the price of the Targa or Cab £22 compareed with £46.. go figure..? Basically I replaced both sides on my coupe along with new rubbers for not much more that £60... Sorted out one side.. as for the other side... I have a feeling the actual window frame is not quite true..[] But at least the window opens, even if it is not quickly...

 

[Jacob]

Right then - sounds pretty straight forward. I'll give it a go this weekend