EVO 991 peer review [Spoiler Alert]

[Alex L]

Outch! Not what we've come to expect from a new generation 911...

New Porsche 911: the definitive test
In one of 2012's most crucial tests, not one but two new 911s head to our favourite Welsh roads to meet a welcoming party that's anything but. The 3.4-litre 911 Carrera tackles M3, XKR, Evora S, C63 AMG and GT-R in south Wales. We then drive the winner to Snowdonia where it joins Vantage S, R8, M5, XKR-S and GranTurismo S to battle the 3.8-engined 911 Carrera S. By the end we'll know who makes the world's best sports car

Result: Beaten convincingly by the GT-R and the R8 in both C2 and C2S forms.

Perhaps that will encourage Porsche to bring out the Turbo earlier?!

 

[ghh]

I've just taken delivery of a 991S, swapped for a 2011 GTR.

The GTR an amazing car but a one trick pony. Very fast but far too much tyre noise and lousy ride. It's a big heavy brute of a car that wants to tramline off the road. Very easy to drive fast nevertheless. Also its a bit characterless. A car that deserves massive respect but no emotional bond like with an Aston.


The 991 has gone a little soft around the edges but there a quantum improvement in its livabilty factor. If you can afford two cars then get a GT3 RS and say an M5.

As a combination the 991 is sensational.

I bet if the Evo team had based today's group test on long term ownership the result would have been different.

An M3 versus the 991 is a joke! The great thing about the 911 cars is the engine over the driven wheels gives traction without the weight and loss of balance of 4 wheel drive. The M3 has a fabulous engine but no' sense of occasion'.

I can imagine the GTR blowing a few Evo minds but as a daily drive I much prefer my new 991 which is much more practical and comfortable but (although I'm running it in) I can already tell much more nuanced.

I've not got PDCC having been unimpressed with it on a Cayenne GTS. relieved after today's article!

I have got wheel spacers which I recommend. Wheel arches look a bit empty without. I guess deliberate to allow visual defference for more sporty models.

Also when for black exterior and agate grey/pebble grey interior. Pleased since car next to mine in showroom looked a bit dull with all back interior.

 

[Alex L]

It's the comments about not being able to feel the grip limit due to the new steering that concern me the most.

They said that the 991 doesn't feel rear engined until you get to the limit of grip - for which there is no warning as there is not the same level of feel as a 997.

I can tell if my 997 wheels are only a couple of minutes out of alignment or overly worn, because I can fee exactly how much grip each tire has as I drive along. That's why I am always going up to see Chris at Center Gravity - because I am completely OCD now I know what the difference feels like.

I wonder if such alignment issues would be masked more by the 991 longer wheelbase, dynamic rollbars, and power steering?!

 

[ghh]

I thought the problem with the car suddenly letting go was being attributed to the PDCC?

I'm running mine in but have gently pushed the car round a few of my favourite roundabouts. I reckon steering very good. There is definite 'feel' and the car tracks perfectly.

As I said before, as an 'all in one car' its absolutely brilliant. Miles better than a GTR and I believe it is the sort of car that rewards long term ownership. The more I drive mine (I've done sod all work today!) the more I like it.

I have to go back to the 997GT3 RS to remember feeling like that about a car.

It's more rewarding to have to get to know a car.

 

[pwebb]

Like you I didn't spec the pdcc and perhaps more happy now.

Not sure how the wheels don't fill the arch, looks ok to me

Of course, Evo found the opposite to Car with the same cars, and Chris Harris (ex Evo) is now on Pistonheads staff, and we know what he thinks...

Horses for courses, and haven't cancelled my subscription - yet []

 

[ghh]

Peter

I meant fill the arches outwards.

The spacers only add 0.5cm but means rim/tyre now flush with bodywork.

I would have liked the sports suspension which lowers ride height by 1cm but my dealer said would knock resale and what's the point - you have a sport dampers button anyway.

Does anyone know how this button compares with the sports suspension?

Does the sports suspension have a button to harden ride even more?

What I don't understand is this.

Some 997 owners are complaining about loss of interaction so why does no one buy the sports suspension?

From my experince yesterday the sport damper setting adds to the driving experience. If the sports suspension even better compromise I'd definitely have had it if not killed resale.

 

[Adam2S]

ORIGINAL: ghh

Peter

I meant fill the arches outwards.

The spacers only add 0.5cm but means rim/tyre now flush with bodywork.

I would have liked the sports suspension which lowers ride height by 1cm but my dealer said would knock resale and what's the point - you have a sport dampers button anyway.

Does anyone know how this button compares with the sports suspension?

Does the sports suspension have a button to harden ride even more?

What I don't understand is this.

Some 997 owners are complaining about loss of interaction so why does no one buy the sports suspension?

From my experince yesterday the sport damper setting adds to the driving experience. If the sports suspension even better compromise I'd definitely have had it if not killed resale.

This really annoys me when dealers decide in advance which options customers will and will not want to buy used and put off customers from speccing things like this. If they tell everybody the same thing (as I am sure they do) then it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy as I am sure quite a few people will be put off when told such things.

Conversely if you read the US porsche forums such as rennlist or 6speedonline the owners there seem to be loving SPASM and it almost seems like the majority are ordering it. I love the look of the revised front lip and the lower more "planted" look.

I'm toying with the spec of a 991 and the SPASM (-20mm) is very much on my ideal spec list, however I experienced similar preconceptions of spec from my dealer too, indicating to me that Im going to struggle to test drive a SPASM car before I make up my mind as I doubt they will be ordering it on any demo cars. I indicated to him that I was interested in a manual C2S with SPASM at which point he sucked a lot of air in between his teeth and told me it was a bold choice because most customers will want a C4S with PDK and regular suspension. Thats so far off the car I am interested in that I just ignored everything else he said from that point on. []

 

[pwebb]

ORIGINAL: Adam2S
I indicated to him that I was interested in a manual C2S with SPASM at which point he sucked a lot of air in between his teeth and told me it was a bold choice because most customers will want a C4S with PDK and regular suspension. Thats so far off the car I am interested in that I just ignored everything else he said from that point on. []

Why on earth would a salesman offer a car that isn't available yet [>:] ? Do what you want and order the car that suits you. Won't make any difference come trade in time.

 

[Adam2S]

ORIGINAL: pwebb

ORIGINAL: Adam2S
I indicated to him that I was interested in a manual C2S with SPASM at which point he sucked a lot of air in between his teeth and told me it was a bold choice because most customers will want a C4S with PDK and regular suspension. Thats so far off the car I am interested in that I just ignored everything else he said from that point on. []

Why on earth would a salesman offer a car that isn't available yet [>:] ? Do what you want and order the car that suits you. Won't make any difference come trade in time.

Well in fairness I was enquiring with the intention of taking delivery in about 12mths time, by which time the C4S will be available Im sure - that said I was only enquiring about a C2S in that timeframe.

I totally agree about ordering what you want though - at the end of the day the dealer will always find some reason to try to barter you down and even if you have a perfect car then they will always fall back on the old chesnut of having loads of cars in stock at the moment matching your spec! You cant win, so just buy what you want to own, not what you might want to sell back to them! []

 

[flat6]

Which version of the R8 is the Carrera (S) up against in evo?

I no long buy car magazines because personal preference can bear little relation to their evaluation criteria.

Shouldn't the GTR be up against a (yet to be launched) turbo?.
I don't think comparing cars based on price (if that's what they've done) has much relevance.

 

[Alan Woods]

Which version of the R8 is the Carrera (S) up against in evo?

The V8.

evo and Octane are the only 2 magazines I buy and both are still excellent.

 

[ghh]

Sounds like the 991S suffered from having PDCC which reduced chassis feel.

Also weather conditions favoured 4 wheel drive - cold, salt covered roads would make any two wheel drive car more of a handful than 4x4 when just have to get to apex and then floor throttle.

 

[cdmci]

When I drove the 991 back to back with my 997 C2S I also noticed the same lack of feedback in the steeering and commented that it seemed that all the small amplitude, high frequency feedback was filtered out. Interestingly - in the EVO article on the Electric Power Steering they quote Porsche as saying that their system 'only lets through the essential frequencies of up to 10 Hz to the driver'. If so, it begs the question - Did they deliberately engineer-out all the detailed feedback that we love - or is it an inherent feature of the system? Also, if they did engineer it out, can they engineer it back in again?

 

[flat6]

ORIGINAL: Alan Woods

Which version of the R8 is the Carrera (S) up against in evo?

The V8.

evo and Octane are the only 2 magazines I buy and both are still excellent.

Thanks. I still need to get round to trying Octane...

By the way, I'm not knocking that test or the mag. The winner won that test. I'm just saying that for anyone who hasn't read it (and I haven't) the test criteria are relevant to what you get out of the result personally. Nor am I trying to teach people how to suck eggs!
In the previous issue of evo the Boxster Spyder beat the Audi R8 V8 Spyder around a track and quite comprehensively at that. However, whether that would / should influence fans of the R8 as to what their next purchase should be, I don't know.
However, because the R8 V8 beat the 991 Carrera S in this test, I can't conclude that the Boxster Spyder would beat the 991 Carrera S Cabriolet because it beat the R8 V8 Spyder (it might []). 2 different types of test, possibly 2 different outcomes.

 

[Lancerlot]

I felt compelled to pop out and buy the Evo mag today with the morning paper - interesting article and some unusual vehicles used for comparable purposes. []

About PDCC, the Mag. observes, "It obviously works - any lap times set by a PDCC equipped 991 will be sensational -but the trade-off is an unnerving moment of deadness in some corners and a more general lack of detail through the wheel and the seat."

The assumption is this "deadness" is attributable to the PDCC system, but I believe this to be wrong. The roll-bar functions to connect both sides of the chassis. In cornering, you need a stiff bar to keep the chassis flat and tyres in full contact with the road surface. On the straight, the bar can be soft or disconnected altogether, since the main concern is ride comfort.

Bars fitted by manufacturers to their passenger cars are therefore a compromise between 2 extremes and when the same cars are used mainly for the track, one of the first things that normally gets replaced are the anti-roll bars for stiffer ones.

Porsche have cleverly optimised these with PDCC and is getting the best of both worlds, initially set soft, they stiffen when needed. I have no idea how this can have an adverse effect on "detail through the wheel or the seat". Feedback to the driver is mostly governed by spring and damper rates, the steering mechanism and bushes attaching these items to the chassis, plus of course the tyres themselves.

It seems the same Mag. noted a similar vagueness in the 3.4 model, which did not have the system fitted. The conclusion is that if 991 lacks "feel", it is more likely to be due to something other than PDCC and, of course, the new electric steering mechanism would seem to a prime candidate. [8|]

Regards,

Clive.

 

[garyw]

Here's the video [] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFjEwsGqYI