Extra insurance cover

[jw2015]

I was hoping to do one of Knockhill's Performance Driving courses, in order to become less of a danger on the roads, after all, it is hard to take it easy on the throttle all of the time. This basically involves instruction on a track in my own car - no racing, probably few other cars around, it's simply a handling course as far as I'm concerned. Seeing as the only relevant exclusions on my policy with AXA were racing, speed testing and pace-making, I reckoned a one-off advanced driving course should be ok, but just to be sure I phoned AXA, only to be told no. However, no-one was able to explain why it's excluded, other than lame reasons like, "we won't insure you to drive fast" or "it's on a track isn't it". Got into a pointless debate about how I'm insured to drive the @rse off the car on a main road, so wouldn't it be better to insure me to learn a bit about the handling of a powerful sports car in a safe environment, even if this means me paying extra.
Anyway, I digress. How do you guys and girls insure your Boxsters to go on a track for training or even for track days. Are there any mainstream companies that allow you to do these events. I won't be doing many so I don't want a hugely expensive policy to cover being on at a track whenever I want; a pay as you go situation would be better. Plus I've got a family car to insure alongside the Boxster and with the no-claims situation I'll probably need to have them both with the same company, so a sports car specialist might not do the trick.

 

[Delbox]

Had the same problem with 'Porsche Insurance' - the insurance scheme endorsed by Porsche GB! All I wanted to do was carry out advanced driver training, on the public roads in compliance with the Highway Code and law, with 'Cadence'; however, they wanted to raise my excess to £5000 and increase my premium by £150 - for one day's training, including the journey to and from the instructor's residence! I gave up trying to explain things and proceeded with the training, given that it was in compliance with the law. As for track days.......?

 

[Guest]

Personally, I'd do the pure driver training without worrying about additional insurance, since it's a non-competitive education event. However, for track days I'd book extra cover, e.g. as referenced on http://www.bookatrack.com/-pb?43#insurance .

 

[Delbox]

Ente, I agree - but it seems that at least one insurance company assesses on-road advanced driver training as an increased risk; therefore, in the unfortunate event of a claim resulting from such training, where they have not been informed and agreed beforehand,......?

 

[jw2015]

Unfortunately I made the mistake of enquiring about the drivers training with my insurance company and it's now on the record that I'm not covered for it. If I hadn't asked the question then I'd probably be ok as I'd be able to point out in the event of a claim that I wasn't doing anything that was excluded on my policy. However, doing something that I've now been told I'm not insured for is not going to leave me in a good position if I need to claim. I might just do it anyway, the chances of me doing damage are a lot less than when on my country road blasts at the weekend.

 

[Guest]

Be careful though - if you are now saying you know you are not insured, then you will be driving on a public road with no valid insurance cover. Yes, you don't think you will have a crash, but you can't account for other people on the road, and if you were involved in an accident, someone was injured / killed, and you didn't have any insurance, then no matter who's "fault" it was, you will be in a lot of trouble. Not a problem when you're on a track, as you don't need insurance, but as long as you're on a public road it's obviously a different kettle of fish. Just my 2 penneth.

 

[oliver]

ORIGINAL: Delbox

Had the same problem with 'Porsche Insurance' - the insurance scheme endorsed by Porsche GB! All I wanted to do was carry out advanced driver training, on the public roads in compliance with the Highway Code and law, with 'Cadence'; however, they wanted to raise my excess to £5000 and increase my premium by £150 - for one day's training, including the journey to and from the instructor's residence! I gave up trying to explain things and proceeded with the training, given that it was in compliance with the law. As for track days.......?

Don't Cadence offer driver training (on road and track) in their own Caterham, covered by their insurance?

I'd use this - fantastic little tool.

 

[Delbox]

Unfortunately not! However, I wanted to know how to drive the Boxster better - not a Caterham; although it might be great fun![]

 

[Guest]

Yeah I see your position. I made the same mistake when I inquired about trackday coverage and thus chose to book extra insurance (which cost about 250 GBP).

You're usually fine, insurance wise, if you use their car rather than yours, but that's often at least as expensive as the extra insurance cover if the option is available at all.

 

[jw2015]

ORIGINAL: bungle

Be careful though - if you are now saying you know you are not insured, then you will be driving on a public road with no valid insurance cover.

It's a training course on a track so there's no question of me putting others at risk through lack of insurance if I did decide to go ahead with it. I'll leave it a while anyway, my policy is due for renewal soon so I'll see if I can get a policy with a more open-minded company. Besides, I'll be better off doing this sort of course a little later in the year when I can be guaranteed a wet track, I really want to get to grips with what happens if my boxster loses traction (not that that's very likely), as well as learning the tricks of the trade for getting it through a corner in the best possible way in the first place. I can do the same sort of course in an MGF, it'll teach me the tricks I suppose but I really want to know what it feels like for the boxster to lose grip, as it's bound to happen to me at some point on Scottish roads in the winter.

 

[JCB..]

I'll be better off doing this sort of course a little later in the year when I can be guaranteed a wet track, I really want to get to grips with what happens if my boxster loses traction (not that that's very likely), I suppose but I really want to know what it feels like for the boxster to lose grip, as it's bound to happen to me at some point on Scottish roads in the winter.

If you require this level of communication with your car I would recommend getting your car aligned to Nic Doczi's 'trackday' settings. (in essence max negative camber all around). I have 030 suspension but with the trackday settings the car is much more planted and it seems to give much more warning of when you are approaching the edge when driving enthusiastically. Don't be lulled in to a false sense of security, if you are unfortunate enough to hit a dodgy patch of road surface a Boxster can be sideways, or worse, in an instant. JCB..

 

[penfold944]

Don't be lulled in to a false sense of security, if you are unfortunate enough to hit a dodgy patch of road surface a Boxster can be sideways, or worse, in an instant. JCB..

I can agree with that one... A bad gear change on a damp track spun me through about 150 degrees and put me in the armco ( gently thankfully).

It happened in a heartbeat with no warning. I will say that a boxster is very neutral and you can feel when you are close to the limit - but if you pass the limit unawares, there a no warnings and the best you can hope for is that its just a new bumper you need.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Can I just (politely) point out that if anyone thinks they are anywhere near the limit of thier Porsche (regardless of model) on the public road, I really wouldn't want to be in a car coming the other way...
The Boxster has SO MUCH grip and ability that the track really is the only place you can "explore" it.

 

[jw2015]

I have hit a bad patch within a 40mph zone of all places, doing less than 40mph, and had a bit of very sudden and unexpected oversteer, and I've also managed to experience understeer on a greasy roundabout, again at low speed. Both were completely unintentional, but luckily were corrected easily because of the low speeds, but each time I've thought to myself (after I got over the shock of a Boxster losing traction without being pushed), what if I'd hit whatever it was (oil, mud) at 60mph a bend with oncoming cars. I know in theory what to do, but in practice I've no experience of controlling a lack of grip at more than 35mph. I know this is something that should be at the back of my mind with any car, but the reality is I'll be pushing the Boxster through corners instead of pretty much coasting through them as I do in the family car, you just can't help yourself can you? I want to get it onto a track and explore the limits a bit, not so that I can drive like a lunatic on the roads, but to have an improved chance if the unexpected happens, and it'd also be nice to get an appreciation of what it's really capable of.
I'm not sure I'll risk doing the course without insurance and there's not really much point doing it in another car. Maybe I'll just wait until the bad weather sets in and then get a slot on a miserable mid-week morning when I'll have the track to myself and then take the risk. I really don't even fancy an actual track day until I've done something like this, and have had someone point out the basics to me.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

That's a better description []

 

[Guest]

I think driver training is well worth the money, and to be honest, if you are going to pay 300 quid plus for a days training, I think the additional 100 for insurance is essential. Everyone seems to be making the comment that they arent going to have a crash while driving, but remember there are other people on the road who might... ...and if they crash into you, you are equally knackered for making a claim!

One other point worthy of note (slightly off topic) if you are travelling in convoy to a show or something (a convoy is deemed 3 or more cars, regardless of whether they are the same make, model, etc; as long as you are travelling together its a convoy) your insurance is invalid!!! I found this out through my sisters boyfriend who is an insurance broker; apparently if you have a crash and the ins. company finds out you were travelling together, they wont pay out...

We used to travel to car shows in groups of 8, 10+ cars so we all arrived at the same time, and Mark picked up on this and warned us... ...apparently even if you are going somewhere and you have two cars following you (ie going to a pub or something and dont know the way, so following the lead car) that still counts!!! Im starting to form the opinion that insurance companies dont give you much back for your money []

ben

 

[jw2015]

Unfortunately this course is not £300quid plus a mere £100 for insurance, it's actually only £100 for the course (only about 90 minutes & 25 laps) but £250+ for insurance, based on the one or two online quotes I got, which just makes it that bit too pricey for the moment.
I didn't know that about 'convoys' but I would've thought that without some reference to these obscure facts in the insurance policy, the insurance company couldn't possibly have a leg to stand on. You can't possibly be expected to know you can't travel in a group unless your policy mentions it. Granted, if the insurers tried this on then you'd have to go to the hassle and expense of getting your own solictor involved.