Finally got the water leak(s) sorted !!!

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 7, 2013

After spending what has felt like an eternity getting to the bottom of the rain getting into my 944 I have finally got her watertight (well apart from the rear light clusters that I need some sealant for).

I was getting sodden carpets (the rear passenger side the worst) and also the drivers footwell.

Everybody was telling me to check the usual sunroof seals and drains. I replaced the seals and the drains were checked. The problem still persisted however.

After spending many weekends with the hosepipe out and trying to eliminate different areas it turned out that there were a few problem areas. I may not get time to document it all right now as im on my lunch break at work but will put more on later when I get chance. My previous 944 got wet in the same places and I do reckon that the4 same reasons were to blame. I would urge other people on here to check out the areas which I found PRIOR to replacing the sunroof seals. (You may be wasting your money).

The main source of the water ingress was behind the passenger side front wing (beneath the drain channel that runs by the fusebox)

[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/513/ctsd.jpg]
[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/812/qbwm.jpg]
[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/600/fgtz.jpg]
[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/34/d8ig.JPG]
[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/62/fy6f.jpg]
[img=http://imageshack.us/scaled/thumb/534/yufv.jpg]

The pink line highlights a join between two panels which had corroded and basically 'opened up'. Water was getting through this gap via the drain channel . it then got beneath the floor and drained towards the back of the car beneath the passengers feet (carpet there was dry!) and come up through the gaps on the floor in the rear passenger footwell.

(need to get back to work now but will do the rest later) [:'(]

Kongsodoken · Oct 7, 2013

Epic work[

] well done for finding that, thanks for posting[

]

Hairyarse · Oct 7, 2013

Blimey Sherlock, well discovered!![8D] You could have spent a lifetime tracing that

George Elliott · Oct 7, 2013

Good work DDH
these cars are leak prone and the A Post / Scuttle / Sills are at the root of all the leaks I have fixed over the years.
I can leave the sunroof open by 6mm on a level surface and get no rain in on a day with no wind. That proves to me the sunroof is not an issue, its a red herring
thanks again
George
944t

Veerzigzag · Oct 8, 2013

Many thanks for the pictures - I wondered what that drain next to the fusebox looked like from the other side. Interesting that the designers decided to provide a way out for the water running down the windscreen by directing it to a place that can rust in silence, well away from prying eyes. I squirted a lot of Dynax up there from the bottom but I suppose it is time to wrestle the wheel arch liner off, and do the job properly....

Sandspider · Oct 8, 2013

Thanks for that, my car had similar symptoms, though they seemed to go away of their own accord. Better get some bilthamber type stuff up there.

Possibly a foolish question, but I assume you unbolted the wing panel to take those pictures, you didn't have to cut anything? [8|]

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

Right, here is the rest of it....

The first leak I found was relatively minor . I found it by filling the area around the fusebox. It was a crack where the circle is here (where the fusebox housing joins the scuttle area). the water was dripping down onto the wooden board area (and over the years has caused the bottom left hand screw area to rust) Its obviously been happening for some time. The water will only get in this far during heavy rain due to the backward slope of the fusebox area. tricles of rain would just go straight out of the drain channel (unless of course the car is parked facing downhill!!!)

I sorted this problem with a bit of polyurethane sealant (black one)

If you are getting wet patches in the passenger footwell then try removing the glovebox and the black plastic housing which sits underneath the fusebox. Let a hose pour into the fusebox area. lying with my head in the passenger footwell and a torch inside the car, it was quite easy to figure out where the drips were coming from (it was also possible to unscrew the fusebox 'tray itself, lift it up as far as possible and you could feel the water getting through into the car)

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

This is where the water was coming in from underneath the fusebox (the rust shows it has been happening for a while)

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

The next leak (!) was the opposite side of the car as seen. there is an area where two panels have been welded. basically the welding has failed (as is did in the previous two leaks) you could fit the tip of a screwdriver through it. This was filled with polyurethane sealant. Again, this is probably only a problem during heavy rain as the water would have to get to this point (the flimsy plastic tray thing is cracked in numerous places so water could get here during showers)

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

this is probably a better picture of the same gap...

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

ps, it is a absolute nightmare getting a view of leaks from underneath (ie by the pedals) you will need to take the dashboard out to do it properly. I ended up slicing one of the air vent tubes behind the clocks in order to remove it (no way was I taking the full dashboard out again!) . I did manage to eventually see where the water was getting in (again employing the help of a hosepipe in the area while I was underneath the dashboard.

Also in the same area I found another two leaks which contributed to the drivers carpet being wet.

both were attributable to poor alarm installation but a previous keeper.

A bracket had just been drilled onto a horizontal surface with no washers (which held the alarm control box thingy). Water was just getting in through the screwholes.

Also a large hole had been drilled to get the alarm cables into the cab. This had been bunged up with loads of sealant but it was the wrong sort of sealant and was dry and had simply cracked due to it not being flexible. Lke the other leaks I just cleaned the area up, roughed it up a bit and applied PU sealant.

Obviously I know such fixes may not last forever and I may need to patch them up again in a few years but at least I know where the leaks are and can easily do the same again.

I hope some others on here benefit by reading this. I hope nobody else tries to replace loads of seals like I did prior to checking these areas.

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

this was where the water was showing itself due to the water getting in behind the passenger front wing.

Believe me, it got in at a fast rate during heavy showers as a lot of the rain going through that drain channel was heading straight under the floor panel.

It must be hollow in the front footwell so there was NO sign of water at the front- carpets bone dry.

The water heads straight beneath the passenger seat and into the rear footwell.

I don't believe that many other 944s out there are not suffering from the same problem and having seen the amount of chew that the bodyshop had getting the wing off, I reckon many people will end up just putting up with the wet carpets. The wing was sealed VERY well so the bodyshop had to spend hours removing the seal.

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

I have two more areas to tackle . One seems to be rear drivers side corner of the sunroof or possibly the seal around the rear hatch (water is getting behind the headlining and dripping down as shown in the picture below)

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

Then there is water getting in above the drivers side rear light unit. (the sealant over time has rotted where the circle is. As can be seen the water trail seems to focus on this area and I suppose over time it has took its toll.

Im currently waiting for some sealant to re-seal the rear lights.

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

That proves to me the sunroof is not an issue, its a red herring

Exactly. Ive replaced sunroof seals on both my 944's and neither has stopped the water getting in.

dirtydirtyharry · Oct 8, 2013

ORIGINAL: Sandspider

Thanks for that, my car had similar symptoms, though they seemed to go away of their own accord. Better get some bilthamber type stuff up there.

Possibly a foolish question, but I assume you unbolted the wing panel to take those pictures, you didn't have to cut anything? [8|]

The seals around the wing were 'horrific' according to the bodyshop (horrific in a very thorough way if you get my meaning)

They protected it properly prior to putting the wing back on..

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6865/qbwm.jpg

robdimond · Oct 9, 2013

Very interesting thread!

A benefit of fitting full sills is that you have to take the wing off... mine was not rusty/leaking behind but the paint was flaking off and surface rust so it's only a matter of time.

The wing is held on with a row of bolts across the top (easy), a row of bolts connecting to the front PU (very easy) and three bolts to the A pillar right at the back, covered in sealer and behind the ABS pump (hard!). Requires a lot of patience to remove a wing without damage as it's effectively glued on with thick underseal.
I wiggled the wing off bit by bit, using a stanley knife to cut the thick sealer along the join inside the wheel well.

George Elliott · Oct 9, 2013

good images and analysis, thanks for taking the time DDH

over the years - I have experienced about 70% of exactly these problems, including the rear only wet carpet with water coming in under the front seat mounting on the floor, creeping out in minute drips from between the sheet metal seams.
the aftermarket Alarm (but in the A post not scuttle)
the sunroof due to capillary action on the headlining trim (x1 corner) where the factory had not used sealant properly,
Rear hatch Seal back corner capillary action again, (water will go uphill in certain conditions) [&:]
Rear hatch top Corner - same problem I think.

As a guide, if your car steams up, its leaking.

cheap to fix, tough to find

George
944t

eddieedmo · Oct 9, 2013

ORIGINAL: dirtydirtyharry

I have two more areas to tackle . One seems to be rear drivers side corner of the sunroof or possibly the seal around the rear hatch (water is getting behind the headlining and dripping down as shown in the picture below)

the drain holes are connected to the pipe with a flexible silicon tube which hardens and leaks into the lining and runs down the pillar and works its way to the rear floor areas.

Nick