Front Wishbone Bushes

[steve_964]

Hi,
Has any 964 owners used Powerflex bushes in wishbone/suspension applications ? I have just put my C2 through its M.O.T and the tester said the front wishbone bushes were looking a bit tired.Although they were ok for this M.O.T .Contacted my OPC who said " we don't have bushes on our parts database ,you have to buy two new wishbones " ....... they want over £600 !!! Have been advised to use the Powerflex replacement bushes at about £100 for the kit.
Any info /advice much appreciated ,

Regards Steve

 

[38F3E1]

Same question asked recently on the 993 forum. Same arguments apply to the 964.

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=346287

Ian.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Indeed there does seem a range of differing opinions on this subject which is not helped by Porsche almost doubling the price of the replacement wishbones recently []

 

[smallspeed]

I asked the question here and in the RS section, as I felt sure some of the more track oriented owners would have fitted poly bushes, but I got next to no response, only from people wanting to hear my opinions after I fitted them..

Admittidly I was only looking at the ARB Bushes as they came up as an advisory on my last MOT, but as there was no response from anyone I chickened out and fitted the standard bushes (which were about £10 or something)

I'm still quite interested in trying these parts in my car, and might still fit some if I get time before the summer; I think you can pick up a complete set (front and rear inc arb) for about 120 quid on ebay, but you need to know the dia of your arb to order as there are different sizes available. I've used powerflex before, and never had any problems. My mini's all had powerflex bushes, and my midget is still running them from about 8yrs ago.. lots of abuse on the road, and through my dad's efforts hillclimbing and doing sprints, and they still look to be in good nick

here's a link, these are £133, however there was another guy in MK/NHampton selling them seperately (front/rear) for about 120 combined, but he's not on there at the moment..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERFLEX-SUSPENSION-BUSHES-PORSCHE-911-964-993-CARRERA_W0QQitemZ300169914106QQihZ020QQcategoryZ40192QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

I've officially had enough of porsches "price re-structure" (increase) which seems to be hitting 964's/993's worst of all...

ben

 

[smallspeed]

ps.. Im thinking of changing the settings on my suspension over the summer, so the cost of re-alignment isn't an issue for me if fitting replacement bushes.. might need to factor an alignment into the equation if you're not changing anything, however I guess this would be needed with replacement arm's anyway..

pps.. if you are close to leicester I have access to a hydraulic press if you need one to remove the old bearings

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: smallspeed

I asked the question here and in the RS section, as I felt sure some of the more track oriented owners would have fitted poly bushes, but I got next to no response, only from people wanting to hear my opinions after I fitted them..

Admittidly I was only looking at the ARB Bushes as they came up as an advisory on my last MOT, but as there was no response from anyone I chickened out and fitted the standard bushes (which were about £10 or something)

I've fitted the powerflex ARB bushes and they work well. The car feels a little bit taughter and more planted in fast bends. But of course this is partly due to the original ones being well past their sell by date.

BTW Steve you can buy re-conditioned wishbones on an exchange basis for £310 + VAT from Design911:

http://www.design911.co.uk/steering_front964.htm

 

[smallspeed]

i agree replacing bushes (even shot poly bushes with standard ones) is always an improvement so its very hard to get a good comparison!..
im surprised porsche don't do service items for the wishbones; bushes like that are a fairly normal service part I would think.. I know (dont ask how) the ford ka doesnt have servicable bushes, but a new wishbone is about £35 so not too much of a big deal!..

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

ORIGINAL: smallspeed

im surprised porsche don't do service items for the wishbones; bushes like that are a fairly normal service part I would think..

Ben,

There is some reasoning behind this. The standard Porsche bushings have internal voids which are designed to give the bushings some degree of "give" and since these voids are not visible it is impossible to position them correctly outside of the production environment. It is for this reason that the wishbones are not designed with serviceable bushes.

The Powerflex replacements do not have these internal voids (and are slightly harsher because of it) so don't suffer with the same limitations but the standard wishbone bushes have to be cut out (not pressed out) and it's quite a labour intensive job to do and accounts for the considerably higher labour charge when re-bushing the wishbones when compared to just changing them for new factory items. There is certainly some money to be saved if you do the job yourself but if you are paying someone to do it (at £40-£50/hour) the savings might not be so substantial. As Steve mentioned above, the exchange price of re-bushed wishbones from Design 911 is not substantially cheaper than new ones from Porsche.

Regards

Dave

 

[38F3E1]

Faced with this dilema last year. Went for new Porsche replacement wishbones. Rationalised the cost over 75000 miles which is how long the originals lasted. In those terms it doesn't seem so expensive.

Ian.

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: ian_uk

Faced with this dilema last year. Went for new Porsche replacement wishbones. Rationalised the cost over 75000 miles which is how long the originals lasted. In those terms it doesn't seem so expensive.

Ian.

Ian, was that before Porsche hiked the price up in the recent parts review? If so, what were they going for then compared to the £600 the OP was quoted (not including fitting if I understand his post correctly)?

 

[38F3E1]

About half the price from memory. I would still make the same descision though. Mind you I have done nearly 26,000 miles in 18 months so I know I will get my moneys worth and I am not sure what poly bushes would look like after 26,000 miles.

Ian.

 

[smallspeed]

this porsche price rationalization thing is what my american co-workers call "B-S" []

 

[mpt964]

i used the powerflex bushes and they were great. the steering became more positive. would definitely recommend as opposed to rubber replacements

 

[Crystal Cranks]

Hartech in Bolton do replacement wishbone units for £135.00 + vat have a look on http://www.hartech.org/parts.html

CC

 

[smallspeed]

Look like good value replacements and nicely cleaned up/sandblasted too..
Are the arms cast? would be nice if they were crack tested after they were sandblasted just to be sure of the parts integrity if they are; I guess thats one benefit of replacing the whole thing in one go

Looking at the Hartech site the 993 arms look very similar to the 964 arms, and the powerflex bushes are the same for both models.. are they the same or is there a benefit of one over the other? I guess what Im getting at (without wanting to hijack the thread) is could you fit 993 arms to a 964 and vice versa, and would there be any benefit; stronger, lighter, more camber/adjustment, cheaper?..

Thinking out loud really but seen as they are so similar and people are talking about replacing theirs, might be worth bringing up..

 

[Steve Brookes]

I remember seeing a post on PH by Baz Hartech where he said that their bushes are the same specification as the Porsche ones. His opinion was that these were preferable to poly bushes hence his decision to get equivalent rubber bushes made rather than re-bush with the poly ones.

 

[steve_964]

Hi ,
Many thanks for the replies ,I should have said that my OPC wanted £600 for a pair of new front wishbones. That is the supply only price,no fitting included.
Think I'll enquire about the Hartech units ,but the powerflex bushes do seem to have some favourable reports so still a good option ,will post when further news available.

Steve

 

[smallspeed]

does anyone know if there is a difference between 993 and 964 arms and if so what it is?

im always surprised how many small parts are the same across a lot of models, yet have different prices from the OPC (ie RS door handles 964 = £200, 993 = £75, yet same part) although they might have bumped the 993 part up in price to 200 with the re-structure []