Fuel pipe replacement

[Guest]

Has anybody replaced the fuel pipes that run from the tank all the way under the floor of the car to the engine.

The MOT man gave me an advisory note last year for rusty fuel and brake pipes. Brake pipes I have done no problem made up new sections myself.

I have brought the fuel pipes required. I can't see at the moment how to route the pipes correctly without dropping the cross member which the trailing arms mount to for the rear suspension.

Many thanks

Doug

 

[944psi]

Hi Doug,

Think I'm right in saying you'll need to drop the rear beam. There are some excellent instructions on clarks garage site which detail how to do this. I'm in the process of completing the same job, except I've gone with a 'crazy fuel pipe' arrangement by using flexible rubber hose, brass compression joints and swaged connectors. I baulked at the idea of spending near enough £300 on the proper metal lines and more importantly at the prospect of dropping the rear beam. As it happens I had to loosen the rear beam on one side to get extra inch or so to get one of my pipes with it's fitting over the beam.

There are 4 bolts on each side that need to be removed in order to drop the beam. This is in addition to the shock absorbers and possibly brake lines & handbrake cables.

It is very tight in there so I doubt you'd be able to do this without dropping the beam a good 6 inches.

Phil

 

[Helen Goff]

Mike at Zentrum (advert in pp page 112) Notts has just done mine. im sure he would be willing to talk to you about it. and yes it was a hell of a job which took two of them.

 

[Guest]

I doubt whether the pipes are actually rusty. They're probably just covered in crud. Give them a bit of a wire brushing and see what's underneath before you go stripping them out.

I had an MOT failure years ago for "rusty" brake pipes (which was interesting because they weren't made of steel). I cleaned the crap off them and took it back and they were perfectly happy that they were ok.

I think that half the time they tell you these things in the hope that you'll pay them to do the job for you.

 

[j16jrf]

i have noticed too that my fuel lines need replaceing as well as my brake lines.

Not looking forward to paying someone to do this as it is one of the jobs i dontthink i will undertake myself.

How hard was it to re-do the brake lines? did you replace the entire system or only the ends going into the callipers?

 

[Guest]

I replace the brake line that runs from the front behind the drivers side wheel arch liner to a 3 way connector just infront of the rear axle beam. I then did the links out of this 3 way connector to the flex hose and the links from the flex hose to the rear calipers. The link from the front to the back was required but other section were forced upon me when the old connector would not spin on the pipe.

It was not that hard as the copper pipe is quite flexible. I did give up on running the new link from the 3 way connector over the top of the torque tube and gear selector link to the nearside rear flex hose. I had 2 attempts and couldn't get it tidy. It now runs along the back of the beam.

Kind Regards

Doug

 

[sawood12]

I've been told from two independants (Zentrum and PH Sportscars) that you don't need to drop the transaxle or other major element of the car to replace the fuel pipes. I've not had the work done but I have enquired about it when putting my car in for services or other work. I had an advisory that my pipes were rusty but I was advised that due to the pipe wall thickness being quite substantial, if I got under the car and removed the surfact rust with some Scotch-Brite and give the affected area a good coating of Copperslip I should be OK for a few more years yet.

Porsche now sell the pipes in a couple of sections but the pipes currently fitted (if the ones fitted from new production) will be one piece so you will have to replace the whole thing so unfortunately the sectioned pipes wont help you until you come to replace them again in another 20yrs.

 

[Fen]

Not only do you need to drop the beam, but you pretty nearly have to drop the fuel tank also if you want to replace them all, because they enter the tank from the top.

 

[944psi]

I had to drop the tank a little as well to fit the rubber return pipe on. I managed to feed a piece of cord through the boot floor where the sender unit access is and pull the new pipe through.

I'm pretty sure you couldn't use the original parts - even though they now come in 2 pieces, without dropping the beam. The clamps that hold the fuel pipes flat to the floorpan screw onto threaded studs sticking down towards the floor with a plastic nut thing with an allen head. There is one of these directly above the beam and you cannot get a tool on to undo the nut with the beam in place. Unless my car is different or the pipes are replaced without being secured in the clamp?

Since I've gone the flexible route (tut!) I don't know for sure if the metal pipes could be manipulated around the beam.

Phil
btw - my avatar is one of my fuel lines - these snapped off with some gentle movement.

 

[random hero]

ORIGINAL: j16jrf

i have noticed too that my fuel lines need replaceing as well as my brake lines.

Not looking forward to paying someone to do this as it is one of the jobs i dontthink i will undertake myself.

How hard was it to re-do the brake lines? did you replace the entire system or only the ends going into the callipers?

Its not too bad to do ,i replaced my hoses with braided ones and while i was on replaced the metal pipes from front to rear with no major problems at all , as doug has said they are copper so are flexible. But rather than getting someone to make them up its worth buying a roll of pipe and a flaring tool and making them up as you go along to get a nice fit !!!

 

[Waylander]

it can be done by just releasing one side of the beam, and pushing it down you only need about 3 inches of space to get the lines through, I have done this job twice now.

the suspension will not need re-setting up again as you dont need to undo any of the adjustments.

the parts come to around £250 for all genuine Porsche, you might as well change the fuel filter while you are there.

you need the car about 12-14 inches up in the air and you need to remove the front wheel and arch liner, the rear wheel and shock on the drivers side, the exhaust mount on the torque tube, the OS brake flexi hose, that should give just enough room to get the pipe through.

you will need the two main pipes
return 951 356 935 02 £69
feed 951 356 967 02 £67.00
the two short metal pipes at the front might need replacing
944 356 969 10 £57
944 356 937 10 £62
9 new fixing clips 999 511 199 40 @£2.00 each
possibly the filter rubber hoses
951 356 041 07 £44
941 356 047 10 £17
Filter 928 110 253 06 £27
tank to fuel pump hose
951 356 557 00 £9

worth replacing these as they need updating for modern fuels with additives, a bit of patience and a lot of swearing!

prices are a rough guide only as my price update is now about a year out of date

 

[robdimond]

You can also replace the lines with flexible hose which doesn't require dropping the suspension at all. RPM used to sell a kit for £300 with all the pipes and fittings. I'm sure you can get the parts for cheaper but since I had the car stranded it was worth it to know I had all the right fittings.

 

[JM1962]

Or you can do a temporary fix that will get it through the MOT for about £20 by cutting out the rotten pipe either side of the torsion beam at a convenient place and fitting 10mm & 8mm bore rubber fuel pipe with double fuel pipe clips each side. You need to push the flex hose onto the steel pipe about 50mm. You can do this without dropping the torsion beam. Its a temporary fix but in my experience it can last years.

 

[Richair]

When it comes to fuel lines, do it once and do it right. Or as I like to say, don't f!&£ with fuel!! As Waylander says the parts from Porsche aren't too expensive for what they are. Any other 'fixes' are a bodge in my opinion so I wouldn't go there personally.

If the indies price inclucludes replacing with genuine parts and doing a proper job of it, then that price doesn't seem too unreasonable having carried out this job myself last summer.

 

[Monkeythree]

I'm with Richard on this one. It's a once in a lifetime job so might as well do it right with OEM parts. As well as peace of mind of knowing it's been done properly it will oil the wheels if/when you come to sell it and can show a prospective buyer the invoices for a proper job.

 

[Waylander]

Not doing it right is like using water as brake fluid!

it will work for a while but soon it will be about as much use as an Amish electrician

 

[PSH]

I agree, best to do the job properly, for me that means using original hard pipes, not so sure about it being a lifetime fix though? I changed mine more than 10 years ago now, still good today but I doubt if they will be in another 10 years, though. Car is now 30 and it's very likely that I'll still have her in another 10 or even 20 years, therefore, I would expect to have to change the pipes again during my ownership, can't say that I'm looking forward to it, though....

Pete

 

[Eldavo]

I'm sure I recall someone saying that the Porsche parts now come with a join in them to negate dropping the rear beam - might just be wishful thinking though?

My mate had the pipes from tank to filter to rail and back again replaced with MSA-approved nylon braided Teflon hose and AN fittings for about £250 - might be overkill on a road car though.

 

[Monkeythree]

The Porsche parts do come with a join in them but it's not for the purpose of avoiding dropping the rear beam. The join is to make it easier (read cheaper) for Porsche to distribute them around the dealer network.

Unfortunately the rear beam still has to be dropped to get the OEM parts correctly clipped into position.

 

[Tom]

Thanks everyone for the quick and detailed replies. I've decided to get it done properly (Porsche parts) and look forward to being back on the road - she was sounding very good ticking over in the MOT bay following recent service with new belts, dizzy cap & rotor arm.