Full Service History

[Guest]

Hello again, another question.

In my search for a 964 I have seen a couple of cars with what is described as FSH, which seems to mean different things to different people. In the case of the two cars I looked at, both with mileages in the 60's, this consisted of stamps at all the relevant mileage intervals but sometimes with a gap of two or three years during periods where the car wasn't used much.

My understanding is that you need to change the oil regularly, at least annually, irrespective of whether the vehicle is actually being used and would welcome any thoughts on whether cars like this should be avoided or whether the FSH claim in these cases really mean much.

Thanks

Jonathan

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Jonathan,

I think you can only take a car at face value. Having a fully stamped service book can be encouraging but it's certainly not the be-all and end-all. If a car isn't used for long periods of time, changing the oil isn't going to make a huge difference - it's going to be suffering from dried bearings, shrunken oil seals, oil pipes etc. etc. - fresh oil or not!! The actual condition of the car is what really matters and a fully stamped service book is merely an indication of how fastidious the owner is - not the condition of the car.

There are too many things that a less-than-caring owner can ignore (or bodge) which a regular service is unlikely to detect. Caveat Emptor as they say (I think!! - Latin was never my strong point.)

Regards


Dave

 

[Melv]

FSH in my book is a sheaf of bills and MOT's, anybody can stamp a service book!

 

[tim_haskins]

hi

I agree with the above, bills that prove work has been done are much better in my opinion than stamps in the book. Although it is nice to have both!. MOTs i dont think mean much it only means on the day it was tested it was ok. I would want to see any recent bill (last 20000 miles) that have been done as this will give you a far better insight to the car. Also when i bought mine i phoned the dealership which had serviced mine (stamp in the book) and verified that this had been done. I advise that you find out as much as possible about the car before buying, But as with any car you dont know what is around the corner but a well serviced and bills to prove is as safe a bet as you are going to get. Get a ppi done if you are unsure and this should highlight any problems.

At the end of the day unless you are buying from a dealer you dont have any comebacks and you are not spending 70k+ for a new car so be aware.

Just my view on the matter

Tim

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Fernando,

I guess the obvious answer would be that any propective purchaser would favour the car with the full service history and that would probably justify a price premium of some sort, but a full service history doesn't really tell the whole story does it?? You say that both cars are in the same condition - I'm assuming this is a theoretical two cars - so it's likely that issues such as colour etc. don't come into it. Stamps in the service book are not really proof of very much other than someone had a rubber stamp. Some accompanying invoices to prove what was done and when might be more persuasive.

In my view, all that the service history (with invoices) gives you is a slightly warm feeling that previous owners have looked after the car as intended. All may equally apply to the other car but it may have been serviced by the owner himself or at an indie who hasn't stamped the book The condition now has got to be a better indication of the care and attention that has been given to the car and I don't think the existance of a full service history is reason enough to avoid a decent PPI - and THAT will give you a better indication of the state of either car.

At the moment 964 prices seem to be all over the place - ranging from under £8,000 to more than £20,000 - so a decent history will make some difference, but hardly enough to matter. There are only three things that matter when buying a 964 - Condition, condition and, lastly, condition!!!

Regards

Dave

 

[Mark Elder]

Nothing against OPCs, but if the invoices are from an indie, rather than an OPC, I might well favour the one with the invoices - (depends on what the invoices say). OPCs are very well set up to look after the very modern cars. But my experience of my 993 has been that they don't all have the experience of the older cars to be able to treat them well.

Like Dave says, it's all down to "condition" and a PPI is best way to discover the fine details on that.

 

[Steve Brookes]

Another vote to buy condition. A good recent history is very important so that sounds good. However a lost service book severely affects the provenance of the car. You're finding it difficult to make you mind up about this car and so will others if you later sell it on.

 

[roygarth]

I agree PPI is the most important thing. If both cars had similar PPI results I'd pay a few % more for the FSH motor. I reckon that in some ways as cars get older the service history can become less important. My 1968 Fiat had no history but I had it PPI'd by a marque expert so I knew what was what.

 

[fgasca]

Thank you everyone for your answers. By PPI you mean a professional inspector, don't you?

Regards

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

ORIGINAL: fgasca

By PPI you mean a professional inspector, don't you?

Regards

Correct. Pre Purchase Inspection. Preferably done by someone who knows the model intimately in order to evaluate the state of the known issues of a 964. Usual cost in the region of £250 - £300 depending on who you get to do it.

Regards

Dave

 

[roygarth]

By way of warning. A friend recently bought a 1989 3.2 Carrera from a well known central London Porsche dealer. He asked my advice about it. I said all I know is you must get a PPI. Dealer persuaded him not to. 6 months down the line at first service he has been told he needs top end rebuild (consuming 2 litres oil per 500 miles!!) and has just had £2k bill for new exhaust etc. And there's loads of other niggly stuff which is expensive on these cars.

 

[fgasca]

And which ones do you recomend in the London area? And to caary out the inpsection do they need to take the car to some place? I don´t imagine doing that in the middle of the street, in case the car is not garaged.

Regards,

Fernando

 

[polar964]

If the seller has any issue regarding you having the car undergo a PPI, just walk away. If the seller is up front and has nothing to hide, and your sure it's the car you're after then have a PPI. Better the loss of £250 than a car that will end up costing you K's. Not all sellers will have the facilities to allow for an inspection, like private sellers for example, in which case the car will have to be taken to the independant inspectors facility. The seller i bought mine from took the car to an indi of my choice, fortunately it wasn't to far away.

 

[roygarth]

ORIGINAL: fgasca

And which ones do you recomend in the London area? And to caary out the inpsection do they need to take the car to some place? I don´t imagine doing that in the middle of the street, in case the car is not garaged.

Regards,

Fernando

www.911Virgin.com have a good reputation.