Getting in to a bit of 'motorsport' with a 944

[ukmastiff]

Lo all , im a bit weary of posting this having seen a rather cutting comment made to a 944 driver who dared to try concourse but I know that pcgb's 944 section is the friendly face of the net [] so here goes.

How would you suggest a mature chap with a 944 who fancied getting in to a bit of low end beginner motorsport actually does it. I have scanned the web and seen mention of sprints hill climbs auto tests and track days and I must admit I'm a bit confused as to the best to make my first day. Would you join a motor club or would you suggest just starting with PCGB events and if so which or maybe both?.

I like the idea of rallying big time tbh but I totally realise that's a lot of effort and maybe something for the future and not I think for a total motorsport novice. Timed laps round a track and a good chat might be a good starter ? but I need advice as to exactly where to start and with who. I'm sure there must be folk here who have been in my position.

Cheers Mas

 

[Neil Haughey]

Google Future Classics as its 90% probability that I will be doing that series next year rather then the PCGB championship, basically down to overall costs (VFM is tricky as you get more track time in the PCGB championship that is roughly equivalent to the extra basic cost).

To be brutally honest though if I was me this time last year I wish someone would have shouted at me repeatedly to just look for something RWD and nice and cheap (not Porsche) and start there instead. I just couldn't see beyond my own car and what I wanted to do with it and I rightfully decided that if the racing didn't work out or I ran out of money I would just use the car for track days. However the major flaw in this way of thinking is that racing is highly addictive, most seem to either keep looking for their next racing fix / challenge or walk away. Thus I am now faced with the very real understanding that at some point in the not too distant future the car would have to be sold to raise funds to move onto the next thing. Still though I am really looking forward to getting the car on track and each day I have spent in the paddock at race meets just stirs the desire more.

My advice is therefore threefold;
1) Keep an open mind to other possibilities. I know this is a Porsche forum but it was a topic a few of us talked about at the weekend and you could do far worse then start in the MX-5 championship or a BMW E30 in the prod car championship. Both running this last weekend at Silverstone and reportedly dirt cheap (for circuit racing that is, as in £10K to a do a season including buying the race car).
2) Go to events and just talk to ppl, this is what I have been doing this year and in effect it was a discussion with a racer at a PCGB championship meet 2 years ago that convinced me to build my S2 into a race car.
3) Phone EMC in Birmingham and talk to Kev or better still pop in on a Saturday as it always seems to be a bit of a social on Saturdays.

I can't really say much about sprints and hillclimbs except that a good friend with an EVO RS does them and TBH given how much he spends it looks amazingly bad VFM in terms of track time etc. but some ppl really love these types of event.

 

[spyderman]

ORIGINAL: ukmastiff
Lo all , im a bit weary of posting this having seen a rather cutting comment made to a 944 driver who dared to try concourse...

I hope they weren't put off - I've seen some cracking 944s over the last year that would have done very well in concours, and recently a 928 at this year's R10 regional concours that looked as though it was straight out of the factory.

Have you considered doing some basic race driver training? Organisations like CAT, based at Millbrook, do a variety of 1-to-1 courses to providing increasing levels of proficiency. I've only done an introductory course with them, but Colin Hoad, who runs it, is an excellent teacher.

And if PCGB does a novice track evening again, that would certainly be worth getting along to.

 

[ukmastiff]

Neil thanks for the honest and interesting reply. Either you are far more in to the actual racing or I havnt really got the idea. I just saw there seemd to be things like timed track days or timed hill climbs or maybe even auto tests that you could turn up and give it a go for starters. Maybe using the term Motorsport was a bit strong

I was hoping for the sort of events where you could turn up in the car have a bit of fun timed round a track or up a course and hopefully drive it home in one piece but your interest seems well past that. If you do race the 944 anywhere near me though next year I hope I will get along to cheer it on.

I don't think I would want to race or otherwise use a car that I wasnt patricularly interested in and I'm not at all in to a lot of cars. I do like the Audi Quatro but was warned off of them for cost of maintenence etc and somehow ended up with Porsche. I dont know why I'm so taken with them but I just am weird really as I never liked them as a 'lad'. I think its the fact that the older I have gotten the more I have appreciated a bit of quality and class, but im digressing here arent I .

Cheers Mas

 

[FistsOfHam]

I went to a sprint event at a local air field recently and it all seemed like a lot of fun. It wasn't overly competitive and a lot of people had only entered for that event instead of competing in the entire season so good to get a taste of it and don't feel the need to push the car to the point of potentially crashing it (although a couple of cars ended up with cones and hay bales attached to them by the end).

I looked into the classes and it seems that my 2.5 944 would have gone up against things like 1.8 Mitsubishi Lancers (non turbo) and the like so should be pretty competitive with somebody as useless as myself behind the wheel.

 

[sawood12]

Seems to me that the cheapest way of getting into motorsport (if any form of motorsport can be considered cheap - i've a mate who races karts and he can easily spend £6k+ a season even if he doesnt have an off causing any major damage to his kart) is to go for some form of kit car. The main reason for this, apart from the cheaper start up costs, is that if you have a bit of an off or a close encounter with a tyre barrier, with a proper car you are often looking at a more expensive repair utilising expensive body panels, or even a re-shell. In a kit car the body is just a bit of plastic over a space frame so is not structural. The plastic can simply be repaired as cheaply as possible - papier mache if you're really financially strapped, and damage to the frame underneath can ususally be sorted by cutting out sections of cheap tubular steel and re-welding in new sections - unless you really stack it, but even then a replacement space frame is probably cheaper than a replacement shell if you're basing off a road car.

Seems to me that with racing it is not necessarily what you race, its just the fun of racing, so no reason why cheap and cheerful should be any less entertaining than expensive and no-so cheerful.

 

[ukmastiff]

Googled the future classics looks fantastic and suited to a 944 I like that ! , I hope you enter in a 944 , and TBH it's Porsche I want to see race even if there are other more suited cars

A bit advanced for a beginnner but I would definately like to go and see some of those if a few Porsche front enders enter. I'm hopeing to take my boy karting but he's 4 so not quite yet for him.

 

[Big Dave]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

1) Keep an open mind to other possibilities. I know this is a Porsche forum but it was a topic a few of us talked about at the weekend and you could do far worse then start in the MX-5 championship or a BMW E30 in the prod car championship. Both running this last weekend at Silverstone and reportedly dirt cheap (for circuit racing that is, as in £10K to a do a season including buying the race car).
2) Go to events and just talk to ppl, this is what I have been doing this year and in effect it was a discussion with a racer at a PCGB championship meet 2 years ago that convinced me to build my S2 into a race car.
3) Phone EMC in Birmingham and talk to Kev or better still pop in on a Saturday as it always seems to be a bit of a social on Saturdays.

Yes there was LOTS of disscusions about the PBMW champs this weekend....
VERY VERY interesting....[][][][][]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Cheers ukmastiff
Some local car clubs do auto-x type events as the Americans call them, basically a sprint around a short course made up from cones, tests again a little different but perhaps the weak handbrake on the 44 would not be great for tests. Cars like the mk1 golf seem to do very well at these short track sprints, track days of course are non-competitive but can be fun. I would expect most regions have local championships, down here there is a very strong scene for sprints and hillclimbs etc. I would imagine from talking to my mate that costs to do a few events would be fairly low, for my mate he spends a lot because he wants to win which sadly in most forms of motoring competition tends to involve an exponential increase in costs.

Best advice I have had was something Kevin Eacock (EMC) said to me about racing. Basically just get stuck in and don't worry about being competitive, only way to learn is by taking part.

Only racing I have done is one off gokarting events such as indoor GP's or endurance but I loved the rough and tumble of it, I got the 2nd fastest lap of the night at one a few years back and won a couple of races. I still remember having this tussle with this guy who was pulling all sorts of tricks to stop me getting past, in the end I played a bit dirty and tagged his rear quarter to pass. At the end of the race he came charging over towards me, I thought I was about to get punched but instead he put his arm around me and said it was a great fun race, and thanked me for a good tussle. Turns out he was an experienced stock car racer. That experience taught me that there is a definite mindset amongst racers that is definitely not the thing for many ppl, but I found I enjoyed the experience of finding ways to beat ppl more then the experience of actually driving! That was a great night out, just me and a mate booked into one of those GP type events at an indoor gokarting track. I would definitely recommend doing such events as for me it was a very cheap way to learn that I really like beating ppl and for me the racing has to be wheel to wheel with others rather then 1 at a time sprints against the clock. Horse for courses as they say.

I wish I had done something many years ago rather then leaving it this long to start though.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Seems to me that the cheapest way of getting into motorsport ...... is to go for some form of kit car. ......

Absolutely and correct on subsequent points as well. Kit cars are cheap, simple and light. On a dry track my Westfield would keep up with any road car so they are far from slow......they aren't much fun when it rains though.

Happy days:-

http://www.2ta.co.uk/petrolhead/slug/index.html
http://www.2ta.co.uk/petrolhead/Donington2001.htm
http://www.2ta.co.uk/petrolhead/Snett2001.htm

Very much recommended. Aside doing "pay and drive" Karting there isn't a cheaper form of circuit racing....and you use proper racing circuits, at proper racing events, so it is proper car racing.

The other advantage of kits is almost everyone is on a budget. You don't get rich kids who aren't bothered about bending their cars (a big issue with Caterham racing, hot hatch, Formula Ford and other one make series). There tends to be a big differential in performance with kits so, no matter how good or bad you are, you will still get to have a bit of a race.

I spent 5 years racing kits and, on the whole, it was just the best fun you can have. Why did I stop? Even cheap motor racing is expensive (and I became more aware of my mortality). If I hadn't gone racing I could probably now be looking at a GT3 in the garage, rather than a 21 year old 944, but I have no regrets.

 

[ukmastiff]

You know what they say John, memories are priceless and they don't come with an expiry date ! Hopefully one day I'll get to tell you what I spent mine on over the years. I wouldnt have the money back for the memories I can tell you.
Mind you I could do with a few bob at the mo for spending on Porsche stuff [8|]

Regards Mas

 

[ChasR]

I'm thinking of trackdays too. I decided against using the '44 and between a few mates purchased an '89 Peugeot 205 1.6 GTi with no extras (no sunroof, power steering or electric windows/mirrors) for not alot of cash. Even from a spirited drive it's a amazing what a difference a lack of weight can make to a way a car goes. Depending on categories I'll either stick with the 1.6 engine or pursue an Mi16/GTi-6 engine conversion.

 

[John Sims]

[] and already he is looking to spend money.

Track days are great, and cheap relative time/£, but they don't compare with the full on sensory overload actual racing provides.

We all get a buzz catching another car on a track day but, in truth, you are never sure if the two cars are of comparable specification, if the other guy is trying, if his car is on song, if he has swapped the engine for that of a lawn mower.

"Racing is life, everything else is just waiting."

 

[mr brightside]

Hill climbing?

 

[333pg333]

If you are truly just making initial inroads into driving a car fast, then start with basic club days or even mid week trackdays. The problem is that even at this modest (yet fun) level you will quickly see the limitations of your car if standard. It will get very hot under the bonnet, the brakes will get soft, the tyres will screech no end and lose grip, you'll get bruises from bracing yourself into the cabin with knees and elbows due to factory seats and your car will very soon start to feel slower than you remembered. Not to mention safety aspects also. In other words you will quickly want to start modifying your car. This is the beginning of a very slippery slope as many will tell you from their own experience. If you think you would be satisfied with a bit of fast cruising and a few blats here and there, then you might be able to get away with very few mods. You have to ask yourself the question though and be very honest. If you think you'll not be satisfied with that style of driving then be prepared to spend a fair bit of dosh. Further if you want to go racing then forget your car unless you have extremely deep pockets.
If you're like most of us with a modest budget, then given the choice to turn back the clock, I would advise to look at another vehicle as others have mentioned. These cars weren't really designed for racing even though plenty of people have done so. I have seen the absolute top end extreme race versions of our cars in the US and they would cost well into 6 figures to get something similar. My suggestion would be to look for someone who has done all the work on their car and is selling. This doesn't have to be a Porsche either. You will find repair bills to be much less with a different badge.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

We all get a buzz catching another car on a track day but, in truth, you are never sure if the two cars are of comparable specification, if the other guy is trying, if his car is on song, if he has swapped the engine for that of a lawn mower.

Very true, and of course we are not supposed to time the laps but with a cheeky little camera in there you can get your times later. Of course if we get passed there are always classic excuses, brakes felt funny, boost was playing up, was thinking of coming in so slowed up, tyres went off (amazing this one as you would expect to see cars sliding of the track at every race meet given how often ppl say their tyres went off when doing a bit of karting or a track day []). Oh and if anyone sees me driving slowly I am setting up the suspension, honest []