GT2: Clarkson's Verdict (1/5 stars)
- Thread starter THX911
- Start date
Julio Geordio
New member
Personally, I enjoy JC as a writer and presenter, very entertaining and very intelligent. But I pretty well ignore how he rates cars. He's (to all intents) been on Jaguar's and MB's payroll for years, hence he always has his tongue where the sun doesn't shine for those two manufacturers. He always slates Porkers and Beemers. You only have to compare how successful the latter two have been in terms of sales and consumer surveys vs Jag and Merc over the last 10 yrs or so, and that provides some evidence of just how wide of the mark he is. I'm sure most of it just for effect. Just to prove this isn't a "hate JC" rant, I always turn to his two Sunday Times columns first, and have most of his books. You do have to chuckle though, if you read his books (which are effectively a collection of his newspaper columns), he quite often offers an opinion on a car, and then a few months or a year or two later then contradicts himself. Always entertaining though.
garyw
Moderator
All the more reason to buy one then surely ??[
] If it had any other badge on it then JC would have loved it, for example the Ferrari Scud - even more expensive but he loved it.... Great presenter but even laughs at people who believed his ratings. Talking of his books, what card do you think he has onthe cover of a few [] he may hate them but he knows how to sell garyw
] If it had any other badge on it then JC would have loved it, for example the Ferrari Scud - even more expensive but he loved it.... Great presenter but even laughs at people who believed his ratings. Talking of his books, what card do you think he has onthe cover of a few [] he may hate them but he knows how to sell garyw
MarcBC
New member
I do not agree with JC a lot of the time, however, to use the badge argument here, IMHO is wrong. He recently gave a stunning review of one of the new Boxter Specials (Spyder?) as well as a 997s some time ago where he said he truly loved the car but would not buy one. Re GT2, if the suspension is stiff, yes it could possibly be uncomfortable. I rarely use the sports mode on my Pcar because on 80% of the road surfaces I drive on, it is too uncomfortable for long distance driving. JC is right, however, in my case, about wanting to move up the range; the GT3 is next on my hit list and then the Turbo. Sadly the GT2 is out of my price range, but yes I want one.
adrian996
New member
"There's only one thing worse than being talked about..." ...And here we all are doing just that - about quite possibly one of the biggest charlatans of our time. I simply cannot believe that this man has got to the position that he has in both broadcasting and journalism. Surely it can't be much longer before we all look back at the complete waste of airtime that is Top Gear and laugh out loud..? We hear this week that James May is trying to demand the same salary that JC is - and rightly so. At least he has got something interesting and genuine to say - whenever he's allowed to. The reviews of cars on Top Gear - or anywhere else where JC is - has become largely irrelevant. Who on earth would even contemplate buying a car (let alone an expensive one) on the basis that this idiot has waved his stubby little fingers in the air and said that it might be just ok - only to completely rescind the statement the following week in favour of one that he's just put on order (See Ford GT40)? As far as his review of the Porsche Boxter Spyder in the Times is concerned, the actual "review" of the car amounted to about 10% of the total word count of the article. The rest of the article was taken up by him drivelling on about how he allegedly "threatened" some owners of classic cars that he went to see who were unwilling to sell them to him. Entertaining? Maybe, to some but I can find entertainment in the other sections of the paper. Informative? No. Balanced? Definitely not. Someone must have had his nuts in a vice to get him to say the positive things he did - even if they did only amount to one paragraph! If we as car lovers had just one other terrestrial TV show about cars that we could watch - maybe as well as TG - then it might seem less painful to sit and watch three school kids, sitting in order of importance talking c**p on a Sunday night. I just wish that someone within another channel, maybe ITV or C4, would realise that it's going to be so easy to just blow TG out of the water with a rival show that actually has some interesting content. Just in case anyone's wondering if this is a rant against JC then let me assure you - it is. I can't stand the man and I think in the not too distant future he's going to have to hold his hands up and say, " Ok! You got me! - But I got away with it for a lot longer than I though I would! Thanks guys!"[]
]
i agree with clive-i find jc`s articles amusing[] and just that and that alone!were the appraisal part of the article(as usual laughably small!)written by walter rohl or someone else whose opinion one respects on such matters,then we might be concerned but from jc-not a chance-as terry wogan said on his chat show when interviewing jc-for goodness sake jeremy you dont think anyone actually pays any attention to your opinions do you??touche
] and just that and that alone!were the appraisal part of the article(as usual laughably small!)written by walter rohl or someone else whose opinion one respects on such matters,then we might be concerned but from jc-not a chance-as terry wogan said on his chat show when interviewing jc-for goodness sake jeremy you dont think anyone actually pays any attention to your opinions do you??touche
tallmat
New member
Calm down! JC knows writing anti 911 reviews stokes up a response because it is - by a huge margin - the biggest selling supercar. And he has to be seen to challenge the established status quo on any topic. It's what he does. I've met him a few times, at car events, and know he has a high respect for Porsche and the evolution of the 911. But to write a glowing review would just have him toe the same line as all the magazines, and do little for his reputation as an adversarial commentator. On many things, not just cars. I still get annoyed by some of his car tests, in particular the pointless, useless, destructive tyre smoking donughts they do on Top Gear. But to take a corner properly gives little visual drama. And it is first a light entertainment show, not a documentary. His ST columns are equally designed to challenge and provoke comment. I think he criticised the GT2 as a road car because - from the average ST reader's perspevctive, which is what he's paid to reflect - it's not as nice as a regular turbo. Awesome car for the afficianados who are lucky enough to own one. But wouldn't be appreicated by the majority of ST readers and other middle Englanders who'd be better off in an XKR or 612. Clarkson knows his market....
tj930
New member
When I hear left-wing comic, Mark Thomas, doing a routine, I may not agree with his political viewpoint, but I can still find his jokes funny. And it's the same with Clarkson. He hates Porsche and he hates Porsche. But that doesn't mean that I can't find his comments amusing. He just adores Ferrari and is irked by the fact that a certain little, 'jumped-up', German car manufacturer, from time to time, shows them the way.
Clarkson is a very good writer and entertainer who is not afraid to speak his mind. However when he comes to reviewing a car he is looking to entertain and amuse rather than give a proper assessment on the car and there are contradictions galore. He once said he liked the 911 as part of a joke on middle age drivers because it fitted the punchline when we know he does not. I suspect that if a 911 was rebadged as an Aston Martin or Jaguar he would love it.
tj930
New member
I totally agree. His affinity for 'Aston-uar' is just lost on me. Unlike Clarkson, I don't find the DB9 to be "Sub-Zero" and "Beautiful from every angle" - front on, I think they're hideous. (I much prefer every aspect of the 997. But maybe I'm biased?) On the one hand he says that Porsche's designers are "the laziest on the planet", he says that the Cayman fits "too neatly" into the Porsche range, and then - without noticing any contradiction - he says that 911 range is "too complicated." Hmmmm.. Improving the VTG's flow to get more power and fuel economy for the GT2, and introducing DFI with similar results for the Carreras - lazy? (Sounds more like continuous, year-on-year improvements to me.) I still watch and enjoy TopGear on a Sunday night, but I do just treat it as amusing television and take everything he says with a tonne of salt.
InnerSphere
New member
Diversity is a wonderful thing. I for example totally agree with JC that Porsche designers do next to no work at all. The engineers on the other hand are kept very busy! I also agree that the Aston Martin is a better looking motor car, but really don't agree with his Jaguar sentiments. What he will never be able to change is the enduring legacy of the 911 - either it's (still) classic style, or the fact that it has turned from an exciting and memorable car to drive into what has become one of the most accomplished sports cars on the planet. He is after all paid to entertain, not seriously review cars from every technical aspect. Most of what he says has at least a hint of truth about it - whether we agree with him or not is a totally different matter
To take anything that Clarkson, Hammond or May talk/write about seriously is showing naivety. They are entertainers and should be viewed as such. Although banal at times they do generally makes amusing programmes. I was highly amused by James (and Oz) with the wine adventure progs and Hammond has also provided some entertaining programmes away from the Clarkson. After the trials and tribulations of running a business I like to watch these lightweight programmes purely as an escape.ORIGINAL: adrian996 "There's only one thing worse than being talked about..." ...And here we all are doing just that - about quite possibly one of the biggest charlatans of our time. I simply cannot believe that this man has got to the position that he has in both broadcasting and journalism. Surely it can't be much longer before we all look back at the complete waste of airtime that is Top Gear and laugh out loud..? We hear this week that James May is trying to demand the same salary that JC is - and rightly so. At least he has got something interesting and genuine to say - whenever he's allowed to. The reviews of cars on Top Gear - or anywhere else where JC is - has become largely irrelevant. Who on earth would even contemplate buying a car (let alone an expensive one) on the basis that this idiot has waved his stubby little fingers in the air and said that it might be just ok - only to completely rescind the statement the following week in favour of one that he's just put on order (See Ford GT40)? As far as his review of the Porsche Boxter Spyder in the Times is concerned, the actual "review" of the car amounted to about 10% of the total word count of the article. The rest of the article was taken up by him drivelling on about how he allegedly "threatened" some owners of classic cars that he went to see who were unwilling to sell them to him. Entertaining? Maybe, to some but I can find entertainment in the other sections of the paper. Informative? No. Balanced? Definitely not. Someone must have had his nuts in a vice to get him to say the positive things he did - even if they did only amount to one paragraph! If we as car lovers had just one other terrestrial TV show about cars that we could watch - maybe as well as TG - then it might seem less painful to sit and watch three school kids, sitting in order of importance talking c**p on a Sunday night. I just wish that someone within another channel, maybe ITV or C4, would realise that it's going to be so easy to just blow TG out of the water with a rival show that actually has some interesting content. Just in case anyone's wondering if this is a rant against JC then let me assure you - it is. I can't stand the man and I think in the not too distant future he's going to have to hold his hands up and say, " Ok! You got me! - But I got away with it for a lot longer than I though I would! Thanks guys!"[
adrian996
New member
Hey! It looks like this one's going to run and run! Thanks for your thoughts, Gary - but I'm not naive - I know where babies come from and everything, so there. I'm only really saying that it would be good to have a really good TV programme for real petrol heads who don't mind getting their hands dirty, that's all! I actually do agree with JC quite often and concur that this car probably is only appealing to a certain type of Porsche lover - those who like big spoilers and big blue fonts and like to pretend that they really are proper racing drivers - with a proper sponsor and everything - as they coast down to Budgens. The man's a complete cock - and here's the best footage ever of him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nl9nqMKavI [] (Be patient - the video doesn't start until 30 seconds have passed - worth the wait, though!!)
] (Be patient - the video doesn't start until 30 seconds have passed - worth the wait, though!!)Richard Dawson
New member
I will start this by saying I have never driven a 997 GT2 or Turbo (and imagine if i did would probably choose a Nissan GT-R if it was to drive daily anyway). I seem to remember when the 996 GT2 was launched there was similar talk of odd handling as Porsche seemed to dial in lots of understeer which then the specialists have since worked out how to dial out with better set ups leaving a reliatively underrated bargain on the secondhand markrt? Derek Bell recently seemed to rate the 997 GT3 as his favorite of the current crop of 997s so perhaps Clarkson has a bit of a point? I do think he talks some twaddle , but he is in the entertainment business. No one used to watch William Woolard..... Certainly from my experience he has got stuff right. Jaguar XJR one of the best saloons ever both practically and on an emotional level? yes, and buy over an S class. I can't fault him. Golf R32 all the car you need? yes Renault Berlingo a good car? yes So he gives Porsche a hard time; well whats wrong with challenging things a bit? I think Porsche need a kick up the bottom as they are looking decidedly under pressure from many angles in my view.
juliany27
New member
JC [not John Cleese or the other well-known JC from Life of Brian] is an entertaining journalist who knows just how to make a point and get as much publicity as possible - perhaps to help sell his book of collected articles. However, he chose a Ford muscle car as his personal car; it was terrible as he eventually admitted albeit after numerous articles extolling it's virtually non-existent reliability, image and fun factors. He hates Porsches - perhaps a good run in a GT3 rather than a GT2 might help him see the light? Or a 996 C4 Cab - although I am not offering to let him ruin my car.
Oh I don't know. He liked 944's in the past, and now the Carrera GT...
Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members
Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions
