GT3, Turbo and GT2 to get new DI engines

[Alex L]

Posted over on the Rennteam forum...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Porsche-Concepts/234258/

Autocar has learned that Porsche will fit the forthcoming facelifted versions of the 911 Turbo, 911 GT2 and 911 GT3 with its new-generation of direct injection petrol engines. It's part of Stuttgart's plan to improve the performance of its harder-edged 911s, while also making them more economical and reducing their CO2 emissions.

In a move that spells an end to the company's legendary horizontally opposed six-cylinder M97 powerplant "" the so-called Metzger engine - all three models will adopt the new A91 direct injection engine. This was first unveiled in the facelifted 911 Carrera that has just gone on sale in the UK.

Both the 911 Turbo and 911 GT2 are will get the new 3.6-litre version of the horizontally-opposed, six-cylinder A91, with a 97.0mm bore and 81.5mm stroke (compared with the old engine's 100mm x 76.4mm). This ultra-modern direct injection unit also gets twin turbochargers and intercoolers.

Official power figures are yet to be revealed, but Autocar sources suggest a 20bhp increase over the old cars, taking the four-wheel drive 911 Turbo up to 500bhp and the rear-wheel drive 911 GT2 to around 550bhp.

The updated rear-wheel drive 911 GT3 will get a naturally-aspirated 3.8-litre version of the A91 engine with 102mm bore and 77.5mm stroke. It will receive a number of internal revisions over the engine used in the 911 Carrera S, including lightweight pistons. This should push power from today's 415bhp to nearer 430bhp.

As well as increasing performance, the decision to offer the 911 Turbo, 911 GT2 and 911 GT3 with direct injection engines further streamlines production at Porsche's Zuffenhausen engine plant. At the moment, the old Metzger engine is built on a separate line to the A91.

 

[garyw]

So Alex, do you still see this as bad news ? or not so Bad ??

At least its not just the Turbo getting the new block, so Porsche must be confident in it..

garyw

 

[Alex L]

Have a read...

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=460934&Main=459861

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=463025&an=0&page=0#463025

 

[sawood12]

Porsche have a culture of taking things that have had problems in the past and developing them into a masterpiece of engineering and reliability. Just look at the 911. If ever there was a flawed concept that Porsche made work through development and evolution such that a modern 911 bears very little resemblance to the early cars, then this is it. If people think that for some reason Porsche cannot fix the problems of the previous engine or improve on the GT1 engine then they have underestimated them.

The GT1 engine has been a fabulous workhorse that has helped build Porsches reputaton and probably did have a bit more life left in it, but there is a limit to how much you can fettle an engine and the recent changes in emmissions and the fact sportscars are no longer forgiven for having poor fuel economy has taken engine design to a whole different ball game. Porsche need to move on to survive and stay ahead of the game. And you can't blame them for wanting to increase efficiency on their engine production line either. They are a business afteral.

OT and to set the record straight - I disagree with the idea expressed on the forum linked above that 944's over 100k miles have a 'problem' with oil starvation. Yes it has happened mainly on cars that are tracked agressively or raced and is usually caused by the oil pick-up tube snapping due to the cornering forces generated by modified cars on sticky racing tyres. This is a well known and understood issue and anyone looking to race a 944 or use one aggressively on the track should do their homework and protect themselves from this by using the very simple and cheap mod that has proved to be very successful meaning 944 and 968's make very good and uber-reliable racing cars. 944's used on the road and for 'recreational' trackdays are perfectly reliable in this respect. Just goes to show how chinese whispers can take a relatively rare issue and blow it out of all proportion into a 'major defficiency'. A bit like the RMS issue maybe?

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

Have a read...

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=460934&Main=459861

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=463025&an=0&page=0#463025

Sounds like the 993/996 air cooled vs water cooled argument to me.

My 3.8 997 engine does not have quite the charismatic old sound of a 993 engine but it still sounds pretty good is far more powerful, greener, more economical and meets modern emisisons regulations. Some people will hang onto the air coled is best no matter what, and good for them, others will see my point. The same will be true with the GT-1 engine - it is good that people have different views

We'll have to wait and see - If this block is going into the GT3 - Porsche will be going racing with it, they make more race 911's than any body else makes racing cars so if it proves to be less reliable/spectacular than the outgoing engine not only will Porsche loose a lot of face but a shed load of money in lost revenue/sales and warranty claims from all sides.

If this happens they could ruin the brand and cook the goose as it were.

Porsche must be aware of this, so they must be confident in this engine.

As poiunted out earlier also emissions regulations and "social concience" make car technology regularly obsolete and it needs to be replaced - its called progress.

As long as the new engine is powerful relaiable and can be tuend to hell by the associated tuning compaies 99.9% of people won't care. For those that do care , grab a 997 TT Gen1 while you can.

 

[yan]

Have to admit I was very sceptical when I first heard the rumour but:
a. testing has moved on if the video posted previously by Nathan in the Turbo forum is anything to go by - side-steps miles (years?) of driving feedback;
http://ramblin.gs/messages/12382
b. the new engine has fewer moving parts albeit the oil system strikes me as more complicated - potential problem?
c. in engineering terms maintaining multiple building blocks is innefficient;
d. there should be scope for larger displacements with Turbo.

That does beg the question on future Turbo pricing versus the recent Gen2 launches: suspension, drive, braking features are now available across the board - so what price a couple of Turbo chargers (+ associated parts) connected in? Looking at it from the other side (prices won't reduce) one might guess that Porsche (need to) have a further set of innovations up their sleeve...

 

[mbrands]

For anyone wanting to keep the hope alive, here's an article from Drivers-Republic.com that seems to suggest (or speculate) the exact opposite..

http://drivers-republic.com/first_look/news/details.cfm?articleid=10e8b9133e0a44a7be2da3ce9e9b52ac