GTS 4.0 / GT4 - Manual verse PDK

[Tetris Keyring]

Hi all. This thread is inspired by a recent discussion where someone mentioned they have a PDK GTS 4.0 having come from a manual. I'm considering the same, moving from a manual GTS 4.0 to a PDK, and keen to get opinions/views from anyone who's done the same. What was their situation/motivation, what's their experience been like and how do they compare?

I'd like, although may be unavoidable, for it not to descend into the usual debate/argument about the merits of manual verse automatic

 

[AndrewCS]

Why are you considering the change ?

 

[Scrounger]

You’ll be lucky to get a new GTS PDK this year I’m afraid.

 

[Ryan9729]

Dan, Does it matter if you're already in the 'queue' whether you choose manual or PDK? I didn't think the allocation took into consideration the specification as such.

 

[Scrounger]

It doesn’t Ryan, but you need to be aware that if you start to change options it may push back your build. If you haven’t yet got an allocation then it doesn’t matter.

Personally, I’d spec a car as you’d like it well before an allocation becomes available then tweak it if needs be. Once you start changing a week before your freeze point who knows how far to the right it will move.

WRT the manual/PDK question I wanted a manual just for the more involved drive but the wife wanted a PDK. I’m so glad she won. I was sat in stop/start traffic the other day and the PDK was sublime. Everyone is different though.

My best suggestion, if you have a manual now, go and drive a PDK and see what you think.

Dan.

 

[Twinfan]

I've possibly posted this before here, but as it's on-topic and might be of interest I'll post it again. It refers to track use, but it will apply on road too:

I have a 718 GT4 in manual and a friend has a 718 GT4 with PDK. His is completely standard and has had a geo setup but no parts added. My car is modified with a LWFW, sports exhaust silencer and some Motorsport parts to allow a more aggressive geo. I've driven my on track and I was a passenger on track in the PDK car, both running Michelin Cup2 tyres. So not quite a like for like comparison, but pretty close. I'm probably going to be stating the obvious here, but here goes anyway... For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. Every shift is identical to the last and perfect. The car is more settled with less weight transfer, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. Gearing isn't that much shorter than a manual and not enough to make a substantial difference in my view. I found that my manual car had more character with some more mechanical noise and interaction. PDK seemed too easy for my tastes, less raw feeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends, shifts and braking points. My car is much harder work to get right consistently but when you do it feels really, really good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car via the use of the clutch and a manual shift. My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm completely satisfied with my manual 'box as I find it fabulous to use both on and off track and I enjoy the inconsistency of a manual gear change. The cars felt quite different to me and I think people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car. YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc. Both are superb options, there's no right or wrong choice!

 

[AndrewCS]

Have not run a PDK on track but being more of a rally than race person, PDK really enhances my driving experience when running on unknown - complicated - tight roads, such that we have up here in the Highlands

Involvement - interaction with PDK can be much greater than first appears []

 

[Tetris Keyring]

Thanks all so far. Some helpful insight there.

Andrew, to answer your question. My previous cars for the last 6 years have all been DCT - BMW M2/4 to be precise. I loved the DCT but felt like I miss some of the engagement of having a manual which is why when I moved to the GTS I went for manual. After 12 months of ownership, I'm torn. Sometimes it’s great having a manual, sometimes I wish I'd gone for the PDK. Your point on unknown - complicated - tight roads is exactly one of the reasons I sometimes miss having an auto. Other times however its great with the manual when just tooling around. Interestingly on the Porsche experience I drove my car with the PDK. Definitely found it easier given most of the day I did was track focused. When I got back in mine at the end of the day I didn't feel like I'd missed the manual and if anything, it got me thinking about the PDK.

 

[Wollemi]

I said already in Dan’s thread that I am going to suspend final judgement on PDK until my GTS4.0 is fully run in and I can properly use all the revs and performance to better compare with my previous manual GTS4.0

However once thing I can definitely say is that driving a PDK properly is a very different experience, and requires a different way of driving and interacting with the car. So I will disagree profoundly with Dan’s advice to ”just go and drive a PDK and see what you think”. If you are someone who enjoys the act of driving a manual box then it’s likely that trying a pdk, even for a few days will have you hating it. That was my experience anyway.

I‘ve driven 4,000 miles in various pdk cars (as well as having a real auto in my other car) and even now I'm genuinely torn. I’ll report back once run in.

 

[Scrounger]

I'm curious Graham, you said that;

'If you are someone who enjoys the act of driving a manual box then it’s likely that trying a pdk, even for a few days will have you hating it. That was my experience anyway'

Why did you buy a PDK?

Dan

 

[Wollemi]

Dan, that is a very good question. I explained this when I answered a question in “your thread” it was necessity and circumstance rather than choice. My beautiful and, to me perfectly specified GTS4.0 which I finally got in July 2020 after ordering it on the day they announced the model came to a tragic end and was written off in November 2021, after 10.5k brilliant miles.

To replace it I either had to buy used for for more than the cost when new, and there were no cars available were anything like the spec I wanted. To order a new car it was a 2+year wait. So when I got the chance to buy the only available new GTS4.0 in the UK I jumped at the chance, but of course this car was dealer specified and was a pdk.

Despite doing 1500 miles in a PDK 718S courtesy of Lockton’s after my cars sad end i was still unconvinced by pdk but I went for it anyway, as for me the GTS chassis and 4.0 N/A six cylinder engine were essential.

I haven’t made my mind up yet. Some days I think yes, other days I yearn for the involvement and feel of changing gear myself. My new car is only two thirds run in, so I‘m going to suspend judgement until I can use all the revs. Don’t get me wrong, I love the car and love driving it. I just don’t yet know if I’d love it more or less if it had a manual box.

 

[Brian_Innes]

My tuppence-worth.

After a lifetime of manual gearboxes, dating back to when 1st gear had no synchromesh, I perfected and honed my manual shifting skills thanks to a lifetime competing in motorsport. Heeling and toeing, double de-clutching, left foot braking, block shifting, blitz hill-climb starts where careless practice could burn your clutch on the start line, all were bread and butter to me for the first 50 years of my motoring life.

During the early years of Porsche ownership I embarked upon a series of (expensive) Precision Driving Courses at PEC using the Silverstone GP circuit. Between the years of 2010 and 2012 I completed three such courses all in manual Porsches, including a Cayman R, 997 GT3, 997 GT3 RS, and the awesome 997 GT3 RS 4.0 litre. The 997 911 cars had a very heavy clutch pedal and gear shift action which presented a challenge for smooth progress with these powerful sports cars.

Fast-forwarding to 2015 when MND was diagnosed in my right hand and forearm, I somewhat reluctantly had to move to PDK gearboxes as an alternative. I was still active on the track day events at that time and I decided that it was probably best that I maintained both hands on the wheel given the race pace that I was by then proficient in achieving on the track day events.

It quickly became apparent that the PDK in concert with Sport Chrono was the way to go on the track to achieve, and surpass, the lap times I had become accustomed to achieving with manual cars. As Twinfan has already eloquently described in an earlier post, PDK facilitates faster, smoother, full throttle gear changes without interruption of transmitted power to the driving wheels to provide a faster lap time. In my experience on the track, this did not diminish my involvement in the driving satisfaction. The auto throttle blipping was spot-on and timed perfectly, and the nano-second upshifts under full throttle I found immensely enjoyable. Silky smooth upshifts on full throttle without the surging jolt of powerful manual gearbox cars.

Moving on to road driving, it must be remembered that I live in a part of the UK where, tourist seasons excepted, there is an abundance of wonderful, relatively traffic free rural roads with no buildings, road junctions, or roundabouts, and where there is often a clear line of sight for more than a kilometre ahead. When driving on such roads, I reverted to the manual paddle-shifting mode and drove my Porsche as I would a manual gearbox car. Holding the intermediate gears where appropriate, and upshifting and downshifting at the click of a paddle just as I would previously have been dipping the clutch and shifting the gear stick. I quickly adapted to this new way of driving and, I never thought I'd say this, but I would not now go back to a manual gearbox car even if my right hand disability were not there.

I completely accept the joy of the mechanical connection and raw engagement derived from driving a powerful manual gearbox car. I've experienced that, and it's a wonderful skill to savour. I shall always recall the experiences of the manual 997 911 GT3's as very fond memories.

When I was 50 years old I never imagined I would drive, let alone own, an automatic sports car. However, times and personal circumstances change for all of us. The PDK and its brethren the DSG are the gearboxes of today and for me they provide the best of both worlds. Fully auto when traffic density demands, and gloriously manual when the clear open road beckons.

That's my personal experience of both systems accrued over a lifetime with cars.

Brian

 

[Windy_Miller]

this has just cemented my selection of PDK for me on my order.

So far this thread is the most objective and non-judgemental reflection on the manual / PDK conundrum that ive found online. Thanks to each of the contributors

i drove both variants on my PEC day a few weeks ago and hoped that one would clearly usurp the other - and as a ‘manual till I die’ kinda fella I had thought (hoped!) that the silky smooth action of the manual would stand out for me. It certainly is a wonderfully smooth shift action and I’m not even going to discuss ‘long gearing’ (I manage to ring out my manual 987 often enough to put a smile on my face), but there was something ‘special’ (for me) about the PDK that I felt complimented and enhanced the cars engine and character. And although it’s a 4.0 NA ‘bruiser’, it’s still a modern car and i felt the PDKs modernity was befitting of the cars overall character.

Nevertheless I’ve still been ‘umming and arring’ since my PEC day unable to reach a decision, but I think this thread has now got me there.

(draws a deep breath between clenched teeth )

+1 for PDK

of course I dont even have a build slot allocated yet, so I’ll no doubt change my mind another 57 times before then…

 

[Spenny]

this has just cemented my selection of PDK for me on my order.

So far this thread is the most objective and non-judgemental reflection on the manual / PDK conundrum that ive found online. Thanks to each of the contributors

i drove both variants on my PEC day a few weeks ago and hoped that one would clearly usurp the other - and as a ‘manual till I die’ kinda fella I had thought (hoped!) that the silky smooth action of the manual would stand out for me. It certainly is a wonderfully smooth shift action and I’m not even going to discuss ‘long gearing’ (I manage to ring out my manual 987 often enough to put a smile on my face), but there was something ‘special’ (for me) about the PDK that I felt complimented and enhanced the cars engine and character. And although it’s a 4.0 NA ‘bruiser’, it’s still a modern car and i felt the PDKs modernity was befitting of the cars overall character.

Nevertheless I’ve still been ‘umming and arring’ since my PEC day unable to reach a decision, but I think this thread has now got me there.

(draws a deep breath between clenched teeth )

+1 for PDK

of course I dont even have a build slot allocated yet, so I’ll no doubt change my mind another 57 times before then…

I have my PEC day coming in June and will be driving both manual & PDK for same reason as you mention. I like the idea of a manual (currently have a 981GTS PDK), but wonder whether I will be convinced either way after my day at Silverstone? No build slot for a while yet so no urgency.

 

[Wollemi]

So far this thread is the most objective and non-judgemental reflection on the manual / PDK conundrum that ive found online. Thanks to each of the contributors

i drove both variants on my PEC day a few weeks ago and hoped that one would clearly usurp the other - and as a ‘manual till I die’ kinda fella I had thought (hoped!) that the silky smooth action of the manual would stand out for me. It certainly is a wonderfully smooth shift action and I’m not even going to discuss ‘long gearing’ (I manage to ring out my manual 987 often enough to put a smile on my face), but there was something ‘special’ (for me) about the PDK that I felt complimented and enhanced the cars engine and character. And although it’s a 4.0 NA ‘bruiser’, it’s still a modern car and i felt the PDKs modernity was befitting of the cars overall character.

Nevertheless I’ve still been ‘umming and arring’ since my PEC day unable to reach a decision, but I think this thread has now got me there.

(draws a deep breath between clenched teeth )

+1 for PDK

of course I dont even have a build slot allocated yet, so I’ll no doubt change my mind another 57 times before then…

I have my PEC day coming in June and will be driving both manual & PDK for same reason as you mention. I like the idea of a manual (currently have a 981GTS PDK), but wonder whether I will be convinced either way after my day at Silverstone? No build slot for a while yet so no urgency.

Just another observation while I wrestle with coming down on one side or the other; in my opinion I wouldn't base my decision on a session at the PEC. Although a day there is enormous fun and very informative in many respects, I don't think it's the right place to decide on your transmission. Objectively there can be no doubt that the pdk is a faster, more effective transmission and in the PEC or other track environment the pdk will be a clear winner. Choosing manual is all about the subjective, how it feels to do some work yourself, to gently ease from one gear to another, the experience of driving the car. I think this can only be done on the road so try to persuade your OPC, or a trusting friend, to lend you a car for a while. See how that feels.

 

[JohnCRS]

I had a Cayman R with PDK and now have a manual 981 GTS. I loved the slickness of the PDK, but not the 'clunkiness' and eventual problems that I had. With a new car under warranty and, of course, the newer box, these negative issues should have gone away.

One thing that has not been mentioned is left foot braking, which the PDK makes possible. Moving back to the manual this was the thing I missed most, and the consequent instant transition between braking and acceleration. This was something I taught myself over the moorland roads near my home, enjoying the process very much. Unlike Walter Rohrl, this is not something I am able to do with a manual, although heeling and toeing is the manual alternative, despite the speed matching function

I have to say that none of these skills is of much practical use, but they are fun to master and that is the point of our cars. Fun! I think I prefer the manual because the PDK is too good. I don't mind if my car is a bit rough around the edges if that adds to the enjoyment (proof being a history of Alfa Romeo and Lotus cars!) Whichever you choose you will always wonder about the alternative, but find plenty to enjoy.

 

[Jhemus]

I’ve always had manual Boxsters and was looking for the same when I bought my 981 GTS 4 years ago. Then the perfect spec, perfect colour car appeared and I jumped at it - despite its PDK box. It’s been a fantastic car: I’ve loved it and the PDK is brilliant. But I still hankered after a manual so specified it when I placed an order for a GTS 4.0 in August last year (no allocation yet). It’s probably my last new ICE car so let’s go with the full hands on experience I thought - no compromises. Then I started to worry about the long gears and decided to try both a PDK and a manual at the PEC Day at Silverstone. I loved the throw of the manual, the snick of the gearbox and the wonderful involvement of physically changing gear. My decision was vindicated. Out of the manual and into the PDK next. What a gearbox - even better than the 981 version! On the tight handling circuits in sport mode and the PDK in auto it was lightning quick with double downshifts under braking ahead of sharp corners: achieving a single manual downshift would have been nigh on impossible in the same time, let alone two. It enabled me to focus completely on my lines, steering, braking and accelerating away, safe in the knowledge I would always be in the right gear. Tremendous. I left Silverstone thinking that the answer was PDK. But is it? If the gears were shorter, I would almost certainly go manual - I just love the feeling of changing gear. Luckily, I don’t commute or live in a city so stop/start motoring is not an issue. But I do attend four or five track days a year and the PDK would be much better for them. And my wife would certainly prefer an ‘automatic’. Though, of course, it does cost £2k more which could go on another couple of options. And so it goes on. Ultimately, the solution is clear: a manual Boxster and a PDK Cayman. I just need to get a second allocation. Shouldn’t be a problem, should it?

 

[AndrewCS]

On the tight handling circuits in sport mode and the PDK in auto it was lightning quick with double downshifts under braking ahead of sharp corners: achieving a single manual downshift would have been nigh on impossible in the same time, let alone two. It enabled me to focus completely on my lines, steering, braking and accelerating away, safe in the knowledge I would always be in the right gear. Tremendous.

Even better in Sport Plus ... [] []

 

[Windy_Miller]

Just another observation while I wrestle with coming down on one side or the other; in my opinion I wouldn't base my decision on a session at the PEC. Although a day there is enormous fun and very informative in many respects, I don't think it's the right place to decide on your transmission. Objectively there can be no doubt that the pdk is a faster, more effective transmission and in the PEC or other track environment the pdk will be a clear winner. Choosing manual is all about the subjective, how it feels to do some work yourself, to gently ease from one gear to another, the experience of driving the car. I think this can only be done on the road so try to persuade your OPC, or a trusting friend, to lend you a car for a while. See how that feels.

i agree, ideally one brief afternoon PEC session isn’t quite sufficient to base the decision upon. Unfortunately though GTS4.0 PDK demonstrators seem as rare as hens teeth to find…

so the decision for many will be made on a limited amount of experience of either / both transmissions sadly.

I’ve 5 years of experiencing my 987 short-shift manual and feel like I want to try the ‘modern’ PDK transmission in a new car this time round now.

if it turns out to be the ‘wrong’ choice then (in theory) I could always trade in for a manual, though possibly not a brand new one as I don’t think I could go round the waiting game again…

oh, and at the PEC you can elect to take the car out on the road, which I did with both variants.