Have I blown my head gasket? real concerned

[charlieb]

Hi all,

Picked the car up from the MOT friday, a few unexpected little things to pass but given an absolute bill of clean health by the specialist and told it is now in perfect condition.

So happy as a man can be i took it home and went out on sunday for an hour or twos spirited blast with my Dad, car running on the button, and i felt pulling very strongly in the crisp sunday dense cool air.

After a fill up I started the car and there was a small puff of white smoke from the back. we both thought nothing of it and carried on home. then left dads to return to london, again more white smoke on start up and a slight misfire that subsided but then...

Misfire got worse over the 25 mile journey back to London. White smoke now present at idle at traffic lights. nursed the car home. Went to bed scared as now about 10:30 and dark in the lock up.

Then been online today and looked up white smoke problems! ARGH it appears I have symptoms of a blown head gasket.. So home from work today i go and check..

coolant = none- no signs of oil though
oil cap = sludgy residue around the seal
dipstick= clean oil no sludge
misfire=developed yesterday
'strange bubbling from behind dash'= noticed yesterday about 4 mies from safety(apparently this is due to gas in the coolant or something)

Am in total fear to start the car now. I just hope theres no huge damage! unbelievable though as had felt really faultess and powerful on the drive, no apparent 'big bang' heard and even driving home last night didnt feel too off color, i just thought maybe it was running a bit rich and the 'smoke' was unburnt fuel.

but now having checked the other vitlas im convinced its the gasket!

Any advice please guys, i have procrastinated this post for half an hour and am now prepared for the inevitable.

Also what on earth are the costings involved in this sort of surgery.. how many hours labour am i looking at..The beast is sapping me massively financially.

Am i looking at over a grand? or less? or how much? [&:][]

Plus the specialist is about two miles away, would it be safe to drive it to him? i imagine not at all?

Yours in desperation,
Charlie

 

[Diver944]

The lack of coolant and bubbling from behind the dash together with white smoke (steam) from the exhaust do suggest you are burning coolant somewhere []. Can you take each spark plug out and using a torch try to spot a pool of water on one of your pistons?

As your specialist is only two miles away I would suggest a quick call for their thoughts and a checkover. As a guide price, Hartech list a head gasket as £775 (parts & abour) plus vat

 

[edh]

Don't panic - there's many more worse things that can happen If it's the original h/g then it's done pretty well, and at least you don't have cam chains etc.. to worry about []

Zentrum charged me around £500 for mine in 2006.

Do you have a friendly MOT tester nearby? - get them to check the coolant expansion tank to see if there's any exhaust gases in it - that's pretty conclusive. You're not going to do a huge amount of damage by moving the car a few yards.

what's the state of tune on the car? - are you running more boost? - what chips are you running?

 

[chrisg]

Ed's right, for a simply head gasket change it shouldn't be too expensive. The question is, whilst the head is off and the belts are being done do you want to do the rollers/idlers and water pump as well ?

This can add extra cost (~£250 parts) but then gives you piece of mind to know that you've a new water pump and head gasket !

 

[Dico]

Have a sniff of the expansion tank and see if you can smell petrol fumes.

If it has gone you may as well get the belts done at the same time, and maybe the waterpump, and.....

Fingers crossed.

edit- Is there an echo in here? Chris you were too quick for me! []

 

[charlieb]

OK good stuff..

I once had a cambelt go on my old alfa 33 16v boxer, bent 8 valves and essentially wrote off half a bank of the engine. Cant imagine the cost of getting the turb fixed though if that lot went..

Currently car engine health was in deemed in excellent condition, from my opinion and from my specialist (fresh 12k mile service and MOT within the last month) and was really running very sweetly indeed. no rattles or knocks or anything sinister. perfectly happy through the entire rev range at all speeds and very very smooth.. except obviously for yesterday..

The car is totally standard apart from a sports back box..no chip (yet), no extra boost (yet), and no bigger turbo (yet)..[8D]

Yep the specialist is literally a mile away in Kennington.. will just have to wait a few weeks till I nurse her round there though as Jan/Feb is the worst time of the year, expecially when changing jobs/servicing pork!

On my limited diagnosis I am fairly certain this is the problem..

Ah well. []

Thanks for your responses as always chaps. [] Makes it all a little more bearable.

Charlie

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: edh

Don't panic - there's many more worse things that can happen If it's the original h/g then it's done pretty well, and at least you don't have cam chains etc.. to worry about []

Zentrum charged me around £500 for mine in 2006.

Do you have a friendly MOT tester nearby? - get them to check the coolant expansion tank to see if there's any exhaust gases in it - that's pretty conclusive. You're not going to do a huge amount of damage by moving the car a few yards.

what's the state of tune on the car? - are you running more boost? - what chips are you running?

£500 ish sounds about right - it's about 10mh labour. The chaps at Zentrum might do it a bit quicker as they are very good and experienced with 944's and very busy!! I got a bit in a fluster a couple of years ago about cylinder head gasket as I cannot find any evidence in my maintenance history that it has been replaced so was considering doing a pro-active replacement, but almost everyone i've spoken to just say drive it till it goes - it's not a catastrauphic failure. The starter motor is designed to shear if the engine is started with the cylinders filled with water to save the con rods - a classic sign of a HG gasket failure is a knackered starter motor, but these things have several failure mechanisms.

 

[peanut]

classic symptoms I'm afraid Charlie. The bubbling behind the dash is the coolant system becoming pressurized by the hot combustion gases . The easiest test is to get a `leak down' test done. It should cost nothing. They pressurize your coolant system via the filler cap and see if the pressure is lost over a short period. It should lose no pressure

You should try to find out why it went to avoid it happening again. If your electric fan's are not coming on for a while when you switch off the ignition and leave the car then that could quite likely be the reason the HGasket went especially after a spirited drive with no cool down drive .
Sometimes when there is a problem with the fan staying on all the time owners remove the fuse to prevent the battery going flat. The first time the engine gets really hot and you switch off with no fan cooling the engine it gets a lot hotter before it cools.

providing you make sure the fan is working and you keep the coolant system topped up regularly there is no reason why you can't use the car sensibly I used my Lux for several weeks before I could get it booked ino the garage .Just keep an eye on the temp guage and keep the grille clear ie don't crawl in traffic or tailgate

 

[charlieb]

Cheers for all the advice guys..

Gonna be a little difficult driving in London, always traffic.. ha. But Still at least I know its not total meltdown and I can take it somewhere a little cheaper, maybe Zentrum? Whilst the chap at RGA is very meticulous I personally think he is a little pricey. Where are Zentrum based..?

on a side note, the fans comoe on immediately after shut down and all work in the correct order. It does seem odd that it decided to go when it did, but im sure its explainable.

Thing is I know that while its out I may as well do the other stuff, belts, rollers etc. Which is all good...

I had managed to stay clear of the Lindsey Racing website until now..

The long and winding road seems to be tightening its grip on me. []

Cheers
Charlie

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: charlieb

It does seem odd that it decided to go when it did, but im sure its explainable.

You won't know for definate until it's taken apart but the HG is one of those things that will eventually perish and wear out simply due to old age. Quite often they will finally let go shortly after the owner has upped the boost. The extra pressure in the cylinder pushes a 20 year old part over the edge.

Looking on the bright side, if it is the HG, then once it is replaced you know everything will be nice and tight for a little extra boostage []

 

[edh]

Zentrum are in Nottingham - not much use to you I guess

I would expect you'd pay more in London - most things seem more expensive. Porsche specialists should be able to give you a pretty accurate quote so have a phone round

 

[sawood12]

You could try Promax that are a sort of half-way house in Milton Keynes.

 

[edh]

I thought charlie's post said he'd lost coolant?

also the misfire & white smoke don't sound good

very easy to check for sure though

 

[924nutter]

As Peanut says, classic symptoms. Coolant only exits the engine in one of two ways, via a leaks from the cooling system's hoses or radiator, or via the engine, either into the sump or the cylinders. If you haven't got an obvious coolant leak then I think you have to face up to the unpleasnat alternative of a blown HG

 

[charlieb]

Yep as mentioned above, lost plenty of coolant, (its my long drawn out posts you prob missed me mention it, sorry[]) certainly out of the exhaust pipes, hence white steam... Next real oppo for me to do anything is Saturday so will let you chaps know for sure then..

thanks for all your help again.

OT

924 nutter, I went to school at Borlase in Marlow, and grew up in Maidenhead and regularly go for jaunts/drives/other japes around there, in fact I am now blaming the road thru medmenham to henley for the seemingly blown gasket.! Ill give you a wave when im next going down, could meet for a half in the George.[]

Cheers
Charlie

 

[924nutter]

Yes you simply must drop by to drool over my 30,000 turbo cab