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Hello and Help - S2 cab won't start!

cdickinson

New member
Hi folks, I'm fairly new to porsche ownership so be easy on me......
I finally bought the wife enough shoes and handbags such that she allowed me to buy my Porsche in October just gone and I joined PCGB in December - I haven't been brave enough to post anything until now but I'm now panicing!.....

I've got a 1990 944 S2 cab, 50k FSH (bought from Strasse in Leeds). For those that are interested it's guards red, linen leather (comfort) and in great condition. However....it's a weekend toy and I'm particularly pathetic such that it only comes out on dry days (7 million layers of Zymol applied etc.) - due to this the last time I ran it was about 4 weeks ago when I was out for about an hour and everything was running perfectly. Since then she was put back in the garage, hooked up to the battery conditioner, as usual, put under her cover, and kept warm! I went to take her out last night and she wouldn't start, all electrics seem fine (ie battery doesn't appear flat, all lights are bright). She turned over once then just a 'click' and nothing else. Subsequent trunes of the ignition key give just a faint 'click' from the engine bay - everything electric still has charge and the dash looks fine - the voltage gauge on the dash sits just above 12v.
At this point I need to admit that I forgot to remove the battery conditioner and therefore she was turned over with it attached! I disconnected the conditioner, locked the car (it has remote central locking, alarm and immobiliser - non factory - 'GT') unlocked it all, climbed back in and just get the 'click' again.
So, I thought could the starter motor need 'a turn' (no idea if it helps a 944 but does on old mini's!), popped it into 1st and rolled the car to turn all the 'bits', tried again, still just a 'click'. Then connected her up to jump leads and the wife's car, still just a click - so I'm no assuming the battery is ok! Have also check a few fuses but not all as it felt as though i was p*ssing in the wind a little!
Questions:
1) could the battery conditioner have been a problem (create a spike???) or am I barking up the wrong tree?
2) am I describing a common problem with a solenoid? / starter or other part ?
3) can anyone recommend a process of elimination
4) if I throw in the towel, who do you recommend to take a look at it that are in the nottingham / derby area (PH sportscars / Zentrum ????)

I would describe myself as having good maintenance knowledge but am totally new to Porsche - I have already purchased the rip-off ebay manuals (but only paid a fiver) so can use them to assist if required. I also want to keep the high maintenance records and hence the value in the car so won't delve too far before I need to get 'experts' involved.

I'm sure I've missed some critical detail.....well done if you've read this far!

Any help is much appreciated,
Chris.

p.s. once she is up and running I am planning to introduce myself to region 8 and start joining into the forums, rather than just using you all selfishly for this post.......

 
I had a similar problem on my '89 Cabrio. Upon further investigation I found (after having checked he battery level, and rocking the car in gear as you have done) that the starter dog just needed lubrication (being under the car you can get all sorts of road muck and spray ingressing), it was engaging but not always returning. You will need to remove the starter motor from under the vehicle and partially strip it down. If you're not sure wat you are doing take it to a local garage.

See http://www.clarks-garage.com, look under Garage Shop Manaual, starter.
 
It's only a hunch, but I don't think that having the battery condtioner attached was the cause of the problem. When you turn the ignition key it's like the electrical equivalent of the dambusters, far more likely to trash the conditioner than vice-versa.
 
Thanks for the feedback gents.
It's definately not the conditioner or battery as it's trickle charged the battery throughout today back to full after fiddling with the car last night. I have also checked / cleaned / re-connected all ground points and battery terminals tonight - problem still there.
So, I'm thinking it's either the immobiliser or the starter motor as suggested by Big Les.
Big Les, when you had the problem, did it firstly turn over (just for a second) then just die (as mine did), or just not work turn at all? Also, should I hear the starter trying to engage or just the usual clicking from the fuse box - I hear nothing from the bottom end at all.
 
My S2 cab went through a phase of judt clicking occasionally. It was dirty connections on the starter, but I ended up replacing it because it still sounded lazy (even for an S2) when they were cleaned up.
 
Starter motor would be my guess too. Get someone to turn the key while you tap the starter with a blunt object. Worked for me any way.
 
DEFINATELY check the engine earth points...The main one is at the back of the engine .. Its difficult to get to ,, in between the cam cover + the bulkhead.. Trace the earth lead down to the block + check if its tight or corroded...
I had a big problem with my car.. just the same as yours . changed the battery, starter etc etc only to find the engine earth was loose...[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]...
The car NOW flys over...but its also got a new starter ,, so that helps big time...
 
If your engine turned over first and then died it could be the electrical grounding that has been mentioned by other people, probably best to check all the wiring to the starter at both ends.

If it's the starter dog it's unlikely that it would turn the engine over. It would just click as it jams. Try engaging gear and pushing/rocking the car backwards to see if it releases the dog, but bear in mind it will needa hell of a push to get thse four big pistons moving!
 
I finally looked into your suggestions tonight and have found the cause of the problem. It is the main earth wire between the 2 main parts of the starter motor (the electrical controller and the mechanical unit?!?!) If you look at the attached picture that I have borrowed from clarkes garage website, there is an earth cable shrouded in white plastic that connects the 2 'bits' of the starter motor together, this cable looked very tired upon inspection and as soon as I started moving it, it soon snapped completely in half - just totally corroded really.
I have put a black arrow on the attached picture to show where the break has happened and to also demonstrate how close it is to the larger part of the starter unit.
So I now need some advice:
  1. Is this easily repairable as DIY if I take the unit off the car?
  2. If no to above, can a professional fix this? if so anyone know one near the East Midlands? or someone to ship it to?
  3. Is my only choice to seek an exchanged recon / replacement (bear in mind it was working perfectly before this failure so the rest of the starter should still be fine - famous last words!).
Thanks to you all for your input so far.
Chris.

CC9E497105C54801B1520469E07DF9AF.jpg
 
Chris..
Personally ide get a reconditioned unit fitted...
Its not realy worth messing about with.. + when youve got the recon one on youl know what i mean....
I got mine from Porsch-apart in Bury...07000 924 944...
Its an exchange unit .. So you might have to post your old one back to them....
 
I would think the best thing to do is to get the starter off the car (don't forget to disconnect the battery first!) and onto a workk bench where you can havee a closer look at the wire and see if it can be replaced. If it can't then take it in for an exchange unit.
 
I'm with Dave - get a recon. You can guarantee that isn't the only bit that's past its best and they aren't big money (circa £120).
 
I'd best give a final update for archive purposes....

I sourced a replacement starter motor from PH Sportscars this afternoon, swapped it out and all is now working perfectly again. Infact the replacement starter seems a lot stronger so the old one must have been on it's last legs for a while!

Thanks again for everyone's help,
Chris.
 

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