Hello!

[Peter Empson]

Bad news, I'm back [] Hope I've not missed too much. Looks very different around here, that's going to take some getting used to.

My car has been tucked away for nearly four years and with time becoming slightly more my own, last week I decided to get it back on the road. I put it in for an MOT today and it only failed on a couple of minor issues - headlight adjustment, a rear wheel bearing and the side repeaters - not bad really!

The first two will be sorted by the MOT garage as it's just easier (although recommendations for good parts suppliers would be helpful), but the side repeaters are a bit more tricky - I don't have any...

When my car was painted I was convinced not to fit side repeaters by the person doing the body work, and was assured they were not needed as the indicators are visible from the side. It has been through MOTs since, but had been mentioned to me more than once, so I need to bite the bullet and do something about them. Trouble is, what?

Fitting them in the standard position is just not going to be possible (I can't recall if the fibreglass wings didn't have the recesses or if they were filled), so as I see it it leaves me with only a few options. I either need to find a nice looking surface mount design (doubtful), look at adding an LED into my mirrors (not easy as they're tiny sealed carbon ones with no neat cabling option), or perhaps find out what markers they used on the Le Mans cars that were mounted on the wing tops (not sure I like the idea of these 'warts', but they do sort of fit the overall mishmash look it has going on). Bet these are rarer than hens teeth and off come obscure VW.

Any other ideas would really be appreciated.

 

[jasonp]

hiya Peter,,,
a warm welcome back and i have recently come back on a regular basis after over two years,,,
seems a bit quieter on here presently compared to four or five years ago imo....
fingers crossed i have Ron Smiths s2 in my garage shortly,,
mistake selling my original s2 so rectifying that now,,,
glad to hear your car will be back on the road soon and sorry i cant help with the side situation,,,
best of luck with that,,,,
regards jasonp

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Peter,
Don't know if this thought helps, but the side repeaters on 924s (same unit as on 944s) are surface mounted, i.e there's no recess on 924 wings.

 

[Owen]

I havé an Americans 944 that has no side repeaters. Every time I went for an MOT I was met with the same problem as you. l always stood my ground and said repeaters we're not needed as the main turn indicators can be seen from the side. you need to get hold of the rules which define a viewing distance to the side of the car in order to establish if the main indictators can be seen. The last time I had a difficult tester I went somewhere else and passed. I now live in France with my 944 and it passes the equivalent MOT test like a dream. Here there is no requirement for repeaters. So who says the UK is under the jackboot of Brussels civil servants? Oh and that magical distance to the side of the car is defined in meters, not yards. Go figure!

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Good to see you Peter! where did 4 years go? [8|]

You could try the Fecebook groups: there's more activity there than the forum now, and more international so might be a help.

Try looking at

https://www.facebook.com/groups/porsche944/?ref=bookmarks

https://www.facebook.com/groups/150454565005912/?ref=group_browse_new

https://www.facebook.com/groups/7433726020/?ref=group_browse_new

If those links work!

 

[Suffolk944]

Great to hear from you Peter, there are still quite a few of us hanging around in the forum, have never really got into that new fangled Facebook thingie !

 

[PSH]

Welcome back Pete...can't add anything to the indicator issue, other than to say that I need one myself as the little locating tab has snapped off one of them...it's been like it for a while...must get it sorted, along with a few other bits....oh the joys of 'classic car' ownership....

Pete

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks for all the replies - really appreciated. Glad to see there's still so many familiar faces here. Like you, Jon, I'm not really into Facebook, but I suppose there's only so long I can get away with ignoring it.

Not sure where to start, so I'll go from the top. Great to hear you're getting another 944 Jason, there aren't many cars that I can think of to replace them, and despite what's happening to most classic car values I see the 944 is still rather undervalued.

Steve, I hadn't realised that about the 924, I'll have a look at them, could be an easy solution.

Owen, I think you're right, trouble is I now have two local MOT places that are saying the same, so it makes it a bit difficult, I could keep throwing £50 at MOTs till I find someone who thinks the same way (or at least get the tester to discuss it beforehand), but at the moment a low hassle life appeals.

I had a thought today about sticking an LED behind the rear quarter windows, or possibly on the (fixed) door windows if I can't go back that far (haven't the foggiest what the rules are). This way I don't have to drill any holes in the body work. Or I could go completely mad and get some trafficators fitted ;-)

I really don't know where 4 years has gone Paul, I saw you'd moved away, I hope that's working out for you. There were a combination of reasons for me losing interest, it has taken a lot of time and money to build the new business up, I knew that the engine needed sorting (still does) and frankly the fact the bodyshop made a pigs ear of bodging up a rear quarter he must have damaged just put me in a bad mood every time I saw it. Still does, I need to find another bodyshop to sort it and some minor rust that is creeping back in. Oh joy!

I was particularly sad to see that I'd missed the 924GTP following its restoration, I presume it has already gone back to Germany?

 

[944 man]

Id ask the DVSA for a decision Pete, and keep the letter.

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Pete!
How's the car running?
I wish I could help with the indicators, I did have a set you'd have been welcome to (think they were clear ones though) but don't believe I ever got them back from the bodyshop.

Sorry for going off on another tangent, but I'm going to need some tyres soon, has anyone tried the Federal FZ201, they seem to be getting good press and Demon Tweaks have good prices on them at the moment (probably wont have by the time I get around to ordering them). It's that or the new version of the Toyo 888 I guess.

 

[Peter Empson]

Id ask the DVSA for a decision Pete, and keep the letter.

Blimey, this forum is lively still! Sorry for multiple posts.


Hi Simon, good idea, hadn't thought about that. Suspect it'll take too long (really would like to be able to move the car around before the roads get salted), but if I can do a temporary bodge with LEDs to tide me over then that could be the best of both worlds.

 

[PSH]

Hi Pete!
How's the car running?
I wish I could help with the indicators, I did have a set you'd have been welcome to (think they were clear ones though) but don't believe I ever got them back from the bodyshop.

Sorry for going off on another tangent, but I'm going to need some tyres soon, has anyone tried the Federal FZ201, they seem to be getting good press and Demon Tweaks have good prices on them at the moment (probably won't have by the time I get around to ordering them). It's that or the new version of the Toyo 888 I guess.

Hi Pete

Car is running very well thanks....thanks for the kind thought re the indicators....clear wouldn't have been a problem, I'd have just exchanged the lens....Afraid I can't help re tyres, I have Bridgestones on mine. Talking of bodyshop's, mine's off in two weeks to have the front passenger wing fixed,it's had a small patch of corrosion for over ten years , about time I got it sorted....

 

[924Srr27l]

HI,

What size tyres are you on ? 15 or 16"
Tyres really depend on how hard you use the car, and what your budget is etc.. ?

Roger,

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks Peter, do let me know how you get on with the bodyshop, it's difficult to find a good one.

Tyres are currently 225/45/17 and 255/40/17. I'm going to try going up to 235 on the front, not that it's lacking front end, but it was always the plan when I got the 7.5" wheels (seemed a good idea at the time). Suspect I'll have to add spacers to give me a bit more clearance at the front as it will already hit a pipe when on full lock if I forget (presumably a result of the amount of negative camber it's running?).

The 888's have been good, I definitely wouldn't want to go back to something more road orientated although it would be nice if they lasted a bit longer, and from what I can tell both the new R888R and the FZ201 should do so whilst offering a similar level of grip.

 

[Peter Empson]

Best I've come up with so far is these, they're the most discreet I can find. Will then have to find some way to attach them to the rear quarter window (or the cage if it's close enough). When I get around to going to plastic windows they could even be mounted through them.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HELLA-EASY-FIT-12V-24V-FLUSH-FIT-SLIM-AMBER-LED-MARKER-LAMP-LIGHT-KELSA-BAR-/321983665814

 

[924Srr27l]

Thanks Peter, do let me know how you get on with the bodyshop, it's difficult to find a good one.

Tyres are currently 225/45/17 and 255/40/17. I'm going to try going up to 235 on the front, not that it's lacking front end, but it was always the plan when I got the 7.5" wheels (seemed a good idea at the time). Suspect I'll have to add spacers to give me a bit more clearance at the front as it will already hit a pipe when on full lock if I forget (presumably a result of the amount of negative camber it's running?).

The 888's have been good, I definitely wouldn't want to go back to something more road orientated although it would be nice if they lasted a bit longer, and from what I can tell both the new R888R and the FZ201 should do so whilst offering a similar level of grip.

Ok thanks 17's then... and 7.5 wide are they off a Boxster or similar?

It looks like your car is more track day use then and not much road use?

I've got 2 sets of wheels on my 2.7 924S, 7x16 Cup wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport 3 's for the road on 205/55/16 (all round)
and another set of Cups 8x16 (All round) with R888 205/55/16 Front and 215/50/16 rears.

I've have tried the R888 wider rim / softer compound set on my local North Wales roads but they are not as good as the Michelin Pilots and 7x16 road set
This car has been lightened by 250kg, and the R888 set need quite a bit warming up, I've only experienced a real difference in grip when it was a baking hot day, also t's rained twice with them on which was understeer scary! as is quite stiff..

I'm sure they are very good for trackdays, but think they are impractical and over rated for road use, also slower than Road orientated tyres.
The sidewalls are very stiff and this lacks feel when cornering compared to the very soft sidewall Michelin's.

I worked for Tweeks for many years and had fitted whatever was the latest marketed brand, but since discovering Michelin when I had a 3.2S Boxster
I've never looked back and rate them over almost all the hyped and marketed brands.

Although I have the r888 track orientated set, I'm not keen on doing a track day as I'd prefer to Race a Proper Race car on a circuit and not ruin my quick roadcar which is all Rubber bushed and can be driven for 3+ hours.

It has a higher power to weight ratio than any standard 944 turbo & 968, Unyet with the Skinny 205mm tyres I do not have any wheelspin issues (With 205bhp) or under or oversteer and the handling is very good.

I used to own a 968 coupe with the same tyre sizes as you have, but I reduced them and went narrower rims from :

Front 7.5 to 7" and 225 to 205/50/17
Rear 9" to 8.5" and 255 to 235/45/17

The difference was 22kg less for the set! which was a staggering difference to the way it drove
It was so much faster in acceleration, and cornering.

This was the beginning of my "Weight" obsession hence why I decided to launch a project 924s, which was to achieve as close as poss to 1000kg
and also with more power and stronger suspension and brakes etc...3.5 years later, it spiralled to a 2.7 v motor with 205bhp and a 1010kg weight

The results as a road car are very impressive and I specifically kept the wheels and tyres to a relatively narrow size because big is not best.
I've have also owned (5) 944's 8v where I have tried all sorts of variations from 15 to 18" rims and from 195 to 255mm tyres

See the car's dedicated website for details: (Gallery page)

http://924srr27l.co.uk/whozit/


Roger,

 

[Peter Empson]

Thanks Roger. Another lightweight, excellent! []

It's on Cup 1s, they're genuine, so hopefully relatively light for their size. I may well want to fit bigger brakes at some point (currently a 220T setup), so reducing the diameter probably isn't an option.

I wouldn't want any less grip than I've been used to. The current balance is very neutral although a few changes I'm planning (splitter and front tyre width increase) may mean that I need to do more work on the rear, but I don't think it's insurmountable (a gurney flap and diffuser are possibilities I've been considering, but given the latter will require a new exhaust that will have to wait a good while).

Road manners do not bother me much, it's much too stiff to be any good on most B roads, but I quite like that, it's a car for track use or short runs, it's too noisy for much else (although I did, momentarily, consider adding some carpets. I must be getting old). As you say you can't really get the 888s up to temperature on the road, at least without being a bit brutal with them, and wet driving is a bit hairy off track, but I'm happy to put up with that.

 

[944Turbo]

Hi Peter, good to see you back! (Very busy nyself though currently),
Good luck with mot
A quick google bought up the following
Tony
[h5]Vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must be fitted with one side repeater indicator on each side. Instead of a separate lamp, the side repeater might be part of the front direction indicator if it includes a wraparound lens.

Lamps incorporating a side repeater are marked either with an ‘E’ mark in a circle or an ‘e’ mark in a rectangle above which is a number 5.

However, some vehicles are fitted with a wraparound lens with no European approval markings. These can be tested by standing approximately 1000mm to the side of the vehicle’s rear bumper with the indicator on. If amber light can be seen coming through the front lens (not a reflection) this is acceptable.[/h5]

 

[944 man]

You down download the current testers manual Pete, and print out the relevant page highlighting the text. If they still refuse then insist that they call the helpline. The next step is an appeal to VOSA (actually the DVSA now) and thatll open a massive can of worms for them.

 

[924Srr27l]

Thanks Roger. Another lightweight, excellent! []

It's on Cup 1s, they're genuine, so hopefully relatively light for their size. I may well want to fit bigger brakes at some point (currently a 220T setup), so reducing the diameter probably isn't an option.

I wouldn't want any less grip than I've been used to. The current balance is very neutral although a few changes I'm planning (splitter and front tyre width increase) may mean that I need to do more work on the rear, but I don't think it's insurmountable (a gurney flap and diffuser are possibilities I've been considering, but given the latter will require a new exhaust that will have to wait a good while).

Road manners do not bother me much, it's much too stiff to be any good on most B roads, but I quite like that, it's a car for track use or short runs, it's too noisy for much else (although I did, momentarily, consider adding some carpets. I must be getting old). As you say you can't really get the 888s up to temperature on the road, at least without being a bit brutal with them, and wet driving is a bit hairy off track, but I'm happy to put up with that.

Ok cool,

Cup 1 Genuine wheels are heavy, approx. 88kg for the set which is why I got rid of them (Sold) and fitted a Gen BBS Boxster lattice style 17" set which were 66kg on a 3.0 968 I had, the difference was amazing.

Mines also too noisy (1 box system) so I wear ear defenders all the time! the suspension is also a tad too stiff but I'm working on fitting
softer springs and Bilsteins soon..

I stuck a Gurney on the top of a bridge style rear spoiler, and I'm also hoping to fit a front lower splitter tray, and I must be heading towards 50
as I've got full carpets everywhere and sound deadening!

R