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Heresy!

Lancerlot

PCGB Member
Member
Having been a fan and owner of Porsches Various since the late 1970's, what I am going to say now will have me shot down in flames, I'm sure but here goes.....

I don't like the new 991 Turbo! [:(]

At a £150 grand, I think your car should be aesthetically pleasing - a car you can clean on a Sunday morning, then stand back, look at and admire but , although I like the Carrera, I'm not really not sure about that Turbo model.

For a start there are those awful black plastic air scoops. I mentioned how horrible I thought they were to a Porsche man on the stand at the launch in Frankfurt. He agreed with me and said they were looking into it, but nothing has been done. Then there is the terrible black plastic rear valance. Yes, these items can be improved by colour coding, but why should you have to spend yet more money improving the appearance of your new Porsche? [:mad:] It's the flagship model, so why can't Porsche do it themselves? Perhaps they're waiting until the facelift model launch. [8|]

I'm not a big fan of the cabin layout either. I don't much go for the fussy Panamera-style centre consul, nor all the gimmicky electronic readouts. When I started driving Porsches you had an oil pressure gauge, a small speedo and bl**dy great tacho staring you straight in the face and right where it ought to be - but not much else and it wasn't needed. I don't want to know about G-force and all the myriad of other information you get now, It doesn't enhance the driving experience and if you're driving the car as intended, you've no time for all that anyway..... And before you say I'm a dinosaur and can't stand development, let me tell you I love these modern cars, they're light years better than anything else I've driven in a bygone era. It's just I don't see the point of some things. Perhaps, it's easier and cheaper to wow buyers with sophisticated electronics than to improve handling and performance.

Whilst we're about it, I don't like the electronic handbrake, the stop/start nor the coasting technologies. They're all bad news IMHO.

Of course all this might be negated, if I had actually driven one as I'm told the new Turbo 'S' is simply mind blowing. But, so far, no-one has given me an opportunity. Perhaps they think I'm over the hill and should not be let loose in such lethal weaponry, but seeing as how I have bought 12 Porsches to date, all new, the last 5 all turbos and my current 997 Turbo 'S' is now 3 years old with 35K on the clock, you would have thought someone would have an idea I might be a candidate for a new motor. Hey ho!

Having said all this, when looking at the opposition, the new Turbo and Turbo 'S' still give more bang for your bucks than any other marque.

Regards,

Clive.
 
Clive
agree whole heartedly, on our 997 Turbo S all the parts are painted and are pleasing to the eye, I agree with the centre console it seems to restrict your left leg naturally falling to the left and a little more restrictive, and I am sure the difference in every day driving from 530 horse to 560 horse is not really noticable. As for all the electronic information , I remember my morning at Silverstone Porsche experience , I was never even able to see how fast I was going never mind the G forces if it had had that readout.
Looking forward to others reply but I for one are in agreement with you,
[:D]
 
Someone get Clive a test drive, for goodness sake!!! What's wrong with Exeter OPC?? Or Bristol?? Surely he should have been at the front of the queue - never ceases to amaze me how sales people forget the mantra that your best customers are your existing customers.


So far the new owners of 991 Turbos that I have spoken to are of a different opinion regarding their new steeds, and personally I love the look of Nicks car. A bit like the R8 'blade' the colour combination is important with the side scoops.

Btw I've never had the G meter read out - there's more important information needed in that dial, like which direction I'm going...
 
I'm with you both the looks, gizmos and the Porsche way of doing things but they can make a car that performs, especially on track [:D]
 
You would think so Peter with 10 for sale around the uk in opc stock from 132k!, not inc demos,
prehaps they do not need the business?.
John
 
I still prefer the look of the 997 Turbo [:eek:] but it has to be said the 991 is growing on me.. not enough to buy one though.
It looks slightly bloated in certain proportions against the 997 and older cousins.- however whether that's Porsche or some other EU directive I don't know.

It is the black plastic bits where I feel they have sent out an unfinished item, owners paying extra on a 150K car to have it colour coded?? really??
I didn't mind the interior and found the car very comfortable to drive for the short distance I was in it.
I can ignore the electronic gizmos enough that they don't wind me up.. I personally loved the electronic handbrake once you'd got used to how it works,(up until it doesn't work I guess) it coming of automatically when accelerating away does make scrapping on hill starts a thing of the past.
I hated the Ferrari one [&:] and found it a PITA -almost 1st generation.

Finally I guess is the price, for the money being asked there is a lot of alternatives to look at... as good as a Porsche in doing what the 991Turbo does? not sure.

The Flagship Turbo and the GT3 have always seemed to be very similar types of car or in the similar discussion, Porsche now seem to have widened the gap of the two, making the choice easier for those split..
The Turbo was a super drive and astonishingly quick and felt totally planted on Millbrook.
I have no doubt the Turbo appeals and maybe in the future I'll own one again but the VFM just doesn't ring for me at this time
 
So let's say in some parallel universe you can get either a new 997 turbo or a new 991 turbo for exactly the same money. Which do you chose?

Having had both I am clear I would choose the 991.

Do I like everything about it? No, far from it. Loathe the electric handbrake and the sound symposer exhaust. I've disabled most of the driver information nonsense and now have Vehicle, Trip and TPM only on display. Though just on the subject of electrogimmickry not often mentioned is the ability on 991 to have the actual road speed limit ( as understood by the Satnav) on permanent display in the driver information screen. Useful I find especially in Continental Europe where it's easy to forget exactly what the limit is.

Ride and NVH noticeably better in 991. PDK mapping also more intuitive.

Brakes not as good as 997, 991 being overservoed for my taste.

I like the interior and rate it above 997 but that is purely a matter of personal taste and I liked 997 well enough when I had one.

Though it may be a tad wider than 997 I don't find it any different in practice.....both being fairly lardy at the rear.

The cheap and nasty plastic does it no favours but doesn't show up too much against Agate from the outside and not at all from the driver's seat. I would prefer it if it were colour coded as per 997 but wouldn't not buy a car on account of a couple of bits of black plastic.

Is the 991 turbo a good car? Yes it is. Is it worth the money? Well that depends I guess. Plenty of people seem to think it isn't and they can't all be wrong can they?
 
ORIGINAL: lowndes
Plenty of people seem to think it isn't and they can't all be wrong can they?
And plenty think it is [:)]

Technically its a step forward for sure, the fact its lost the road noise from the rear makes it a major improvement.
For the same money... then Yes 991 please (with some spare cash to have the additional paint work done) [;)]
 

ORIGINAL: garyw

And plenty think it is [:)]

Good point well made [;)].

Sitting here in full Millets anorak mode with pens and pencils neatly lined up on the desk in a colour coded array I thought I might compare my entry to Porscheworld to the current motor. For me the first Porsche was a 911E 2.4 and the nearest comparable I can readily find is a 911S 2.4.

Tested by Motor in 1972 the 911S did 0-60 in 6.2 secs. Flat out 150mph (speedo Indicated and Actual were identical between 30 and 150mph). Over the duration of the test distance of 2019 miles it averaged 13.3mpg on 91octane 2 star. Weight 21.75cwt, which for younger readers is 1092kg in today's money.

The price on the road including Purchase Tax £5401.88.

To save everyone reaching for their brochures, I have noted the 991 turbo S figures as 0-62 in 3.1secs. Flat out 197mph. Combined mpg 29.1. Weight 1680kg.

Price OTR £141,747 including free rear wiper and floor mats.

So how does the price compare? Using purely RPI the today price of a 911S would be £62,250. However that is a somewhat crude measure and if instead you look at Income Value or Wealth in the context of a proportion of GDP, the economic power of that £5401 in today's money would be £132,400.

And the price of a 911S 2.4 today? I see a couple of nice sounding cars on PH at £140,000.

South Sea Bubble The Sequel?

Nevertheless that sort of number doesn't help when trying to assess the "right price" of the 991 turbo.
 
Or you could save £100k and go faster.. but no touring though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8WyvVbVu4k

 
I've also had successive new 911s since the '80s - 2x 3.2s, 2x 964s, 2x 993s, 2x 996s, 2x 997s - GT3 and Turbo S.... and now 991 (plus some 'collectables').

Whether someone likes a particular model or not is largely personal and subjective (I actual prefer N/A to Turbo), but there's no question that all the 991 models have moved the '911 franchise' to another level - bigger, smoother, easier to drive, clever driver aids - engineered to flatter the driver, better ergonomics....the perfect luxury, sporting GT.

But, like the latest wireless digital music systems we have in our houses, somewhat clinical compared with the analogue involvement that vinyl or even CDs provided.

This is why there has been such growth in demand for the best of the original air-cooled cars - from 2.0 to 993.

A 991 C2/C4/GT3/Turbo might well be imperious in everyday use - although with performance levels that can barely be exploited on the road - but when the sun is out and the days are long, the real enthusiast will also want a machine that is both challenging and rewarding with sounds, smells and feedback that stimulate the senses.

Porsche is now a global mainstream mass producer. The earlier cars take us back to an era when Porsche was a small, independent family sports car manufacturer in tandem with an active racing division. It might sound sentimental, but it's what is fuelling the desire to have a to have both a contemporary and classic Porsche side by side in the garage - the 'classic' being a hedge against the inevitable depreciation of the modern cars.

The 'bubble' will only really burst when the price or supply of oil becomes unsustainable.
 
I would agree the modern Porsche offerings have become somewhat clinical, they are easier to drive than their predecessors and to a certain extent are less involving.

And if the halcyon summer days we are currently enjoying were to extend reliably through to the autumn there might be more incentive to own a "fun" car. However, my own attempts to find the "fun" car sweet spot have yet to bear fruit. The 964RS, much lauded in some quarters, certainly wasn't it though did represent my only profit on a car sale. Harsh, jolty ride, awkward agricultural gear box and distinctly tricky on the limit made it more of a handful than I would wish to punt enthusiastically round some unfamiliar country lanes. It was better on track but became too valuable to bend on the Armco.

Next up the 996GT3 suffered from the accountant induced cheapness of the 996 in general and at 381bhp with only ABS to save it from disaster was outside my competence envelope to drive much faster than Miss Daisy.

Earlier than '89 is too antiquated and quirky for me and I wouldn't want another 3.3 litre 930 5 speed at any price. Awful car.

In my view the best bet "fun" car is probably a 993 C2. A pretty little car, n/a, air cooled but with the beginnings of a more sophisticated suspension and enough performance to amuse without getting into serious trouble. Yes I could be tempted. But only if I already had a 991.

As for the bubble bursting, we'll have to wait and see. With interest rates still at historic lows, oceans of cash looking for a home and short memories there may be a way to run but that's what they said in 1989.

Cheers.
 
Hi Clive

I agree with you on all the bad points particularly the air scoops, the black rear valance and something you didn't mention the black painted exhaust pipes, shiny is much better, something
very satisfying to clean (unlike the wheels, your article on removal in the PP was excellent but the process above my pay grade) You are are spot on that we shouldn't have to pay more to "correct/improve" the cosmetics

Initially I was very disappointed with my new S particularly over the PCCB problems and poor PDI (Amongst other things I had to pay for mats and rear windscreen wiper plus the mats were missing!!)

However after a few months driving with all the kit working I simply love the car (I loved my 997 Turbo too) It feels so much improved to drive it is almost a different car. Please get
someone to give you a drive in one and I am sure that you will get a different view. After all if someone told me fifteen years ago that I would be happy to drive an "automatic" gearbox
I would have laughed! Now PDK is streets ahead of manual.

The electrics gizmos really are a step ahead for safety without loosing the fun and you can of course always turn them off[:D]

Cheers Michael

 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I've little doubt the driving is well up to scratch and a big improvement on earlier models, but as I was at pains to point out, I've yet to try one. [:mad:]

However, I've just returned from Goodwood Festival of Speed and the new Turbo 'S' was certainly not the most impressive flagship model sports car up the hill, if undoubtedly quick.

My ideal sports car would be a sensation each and every time I look at and drive it. Much justification is needed to spend £80K + more on a newer model.

When Ferrari bring out their new cars, they make big strides in development to justify a price hike. The new 458 Speciale at a tad over £200K owes more to La Ferrari technology at 1.2 m euros than it's 458 predecessor. I appreciate there's a premium for such heady models - but the gap appears to be getting smaller.[;)]

Anyway, it's good to know those having taken the plunge are happy with their decision. [:)]

Regards,

Clive.
 


ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I've little doubt the driving is well up to scratch and a big improvement on earlier models, but as I was at pains to point out, I've yet to try one. [:mad:]

However, I've just returned from Goodwood Festival of Speed and the new Turbo 'S' was certainly not the most impressive flagship model sports car up the hill, if undoubtedly quick.

My ideal sports car would be a sensation each and every time I look at and drive it. Much justification is needed to spend £80K + more on a newer model.

When Ferrari bring out their new cars, they make big strides in development to justify a price hike. The new 458 Speciale at a tad over £200K owes more to La Ferrari technology at 1.2 m euros than it's 458 predecessor. I appreciate there's a premium for such heady models - but the gap appears to be getting smaller.[;)]

Anyway, it's good to know those having taken the plunge are happy with their decision. [:)]

Regards,

Clive.

Just read the road test in our local rag on the 458 Spider and it is the car for you Clive!

Slower (quoted figures as no one can road test any car properly here due 40 mph limit) and dearer than the 991 Turbo S but it gets my vote immediately and I haven't even seen one in
the metal but the pics are gorgeous. Original but still clearly a Ferrari, not sure I would really care how it drives!

Shame it is still out of my reach financially!

Michael


 
Or you could go old school as my friend who brought this round for a spin down to the Festival of speed!

06827DAB2D8244968BA2CA49CE2213EA.jpg
 
Ah ha, but left hand drive and you can't live with that in North Devon, unless you have a wide awake passenger with you all the times. [:(]

Regards,

Clive
 
All true- and worse than that -no cup holders'!!!!!!![:)]

Got to argue it is analogue v digital though !!
 

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