HID Xenon lights

[charles.y]

Just wonder if anyone has success with the aftermarket HID Xenon lights to replace the standard 944 ones. What is the make and how much please? Are they a big improvement over the standard ones and are they as good as those used in the Mercs nd BMWs?

 

[944 man]

You need a projection lamp really. Aftermarket Mk.1 Golf lamps will fit 1987 and earlier cars. Then any reasonable HID kit will do: Id suggest an H4 dip only tpe thoug and rely on the auxillary lamps for main beam.

 

[xenon]

I fitted HID into mine using a generic H4 replacement.

I think if you use a dip-only H4 bulb then it might be an MOT fail - the auxillary lights on their own will not be sufficient as high-beam due to their mounting position. Furthermore, when you switch to high-beam the dipped beam switches off with H4 bulbs (i.e. both filaments do not light together) so if you use an H4 dip-only bulb the headlamps will go out if you switch to high beam.

I understand also that MOT stations are getting more strict on HID fitments by checking for the legally required washers (which 944s will have) and auto-levelling which they obviously won't.

Mine made a vast improvement but I'd swap back to normal halogen for the MOT.

 

[ChasR]

For retrofitted systems you do not need washer jets or self levelling. The fact the 944 has them makes life easier I admit .

As for getting past the MOT you can do it with the normal lamps if you go for the reflective HIDs where the bulbs will be suffixed HxR (say H4R in this example). Of course for the main beams this is not an issue.

 

[944 man]

A car doesnt have to have headlamps in order to pass, let alone have main beam. A dipped beam only kit is far more likely to pass the aligment test, due to the decreased scatter.

Cars dont have to have self levelling headlamps. Im aware of the DfT document which makes this mistake, but they dont seem to be aware of the type approved cars which have self levelling rear suspension and the cars whose passenger & load carrying capacities which are insufficient to take the car out of adjustment...

Simon

 

[xenon]

A car doesn't have to have headlamps to pass the MOT?

Sure......

Perhaps the DfT are unaware of cars without self-levelling suspension (but I don't think so as the document does mention this as being suitable). It may well be that the load-carrying abilities of the 944 are not sufficient to take it out of adjustment but if that's the case why does it have a manual adjusting system? The self-levelling system on my BMW is complicated and expensive. If the DfT document was a mistake then you can bet they wouldn't bother, as indeed they don't in other markets. Every car you buy in the UK with OEM HID lighting will have self levelling lights or suspension.

Mine passed the MOT with a dual-arc H4 bulb with a low-beam shield but I took spare halogen bulbs in the glove box in case the tester got funny but I don't think he noticed.

 

[ChasR]

Renault Lagunas came with Xenons as standard with non Projector lamps and no self levelling .

As for not needing dipped headlights I am not too sure (but I know my MOT tester said if it's not there it can't be tested (i.e Reversing lights or MGB rebound straps), but if there they have to work. I know Flashers aren't needed for the MOT.

 

[xenon]

No requirement to have projector lenses (although they are better) and the C class Merc at the same time was the same - both used a D2R bulb which was masked. The Laguna did have auto-levelling or self-levelling suspension though.

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: xenon

A car doesn't have to have headlamps to pass the MOT?

Sure......

No it doesnt. Why argue about something that you dont fully understand?

 

[944 man]

This is a .pdf version of a giovernment department published magazine. On page 8 it clearly confirms how an MOT tester tests a vehicle submitted without lamps.

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2042%20-%20Jan%202009.pdf

 

[xenon]

But a 944 does and the car in question most certainly does. Your quoting some obscurity where if the car was not manufactured with lights then it doesn't have to have them.

A 944 was manufactured with lights, was type-approved with lights and therefore needs to have them.

Why bother arguing a moot point just to be a smart arse?

I do fully understand for what it's worth.

 

[944 man]

No Im not. Ive MOTd a car myself without headlamps. The procedure was exactly the same with the only difference being that the hand written certificate was endorsed with a 'daylight use only' stamp; whereas now youre issued with a computer printed adisory note which states that 'no lights were fitted at the time of the test'.

 

[xenon]

And a friend of mine did with a motorbike. However, I don't think the answer to the OP's question of "how do I go about fitting HID lights" is really answered by suggesting he removes his lights altogether.

If he does fit HID bulbs then the lighting will be subject to the MOT and all that brings.

 

[944 man]

Yes: for which you do not need main beam lamps and theyre not tested. This brings us neatly back around to my point that dip only HID lamps will be best suited to conventional lamps: because they will cause less light scatter, which will affect your test results.

 

[xenon]

I agree with the scatter completely.

I was not aware that the main-beam functionality was not a requirement - I always presumed it was as they always seem to test it whenever I've taken a car for MOT. I'm happy to be corrected if main beam is not required and / or tested.

However if it is not tested, as you say, then the high-beam scatter would not be relevant if you only ever strike the low-beam arc during the test.

 

[DavidL]

It's surprising what you can do without for an MOT.
Lights (it seems), a windscreen, seatbelts in some older cases, a spare wheel, you can ask not to have the brakes tested on the rollers but have the car road tested with a deccelometer etc etc.
Chap I know often pitches up with his 50/60s Loti with an awful lot missing!
Trick is to get an MOT tester who knows this otherwise you will fail and be told to take it up with the powers that be. You will then win but the hassle....

 

[sawood12]

Clearly projector lamps are better but i'm sure the HID kits are far superior to stock lighting so are probably worth it. As for only using the dipped kit - well it may be MOT passable but will it be effective for night driving? At the end of the day if it is no good from a functional point of view what's the point? I doubt the driving lights on their own would be very effective.

There have been several posts from people who have fitted these kits successfully.

 

[944 man]

Ive suggested it for a number of reasons. Firstly normal reflector lights arent ideally suited to an HID conversion, but by opting for a fixed position dipped bulb then you have a better chance of avoiding light scatter as the light source should be ideally placed. The trade-off here is that you lose main beam, but hopefully the dipped beam will be SO much better (not hard in 924/944s) that you dont really miss it. Mostly we're so keen to use main beam because the light output from the dipped beams is so poor... With HID lamps the light output is increased greatly and by adding the light from the driving lamps to the HID dipped meam you should have more than enough range too. This may need a little elctrickery so that the dipped beam stays lit when the main beam is selected, but its relatively simple.

I intend to upgrade the auxilliary driving lamps too, using a cheap H2 kit.

 

[xenon]

You can essentially get three types of bulbs with an H4 base.

1) dip only
2) dip and main using solenoid controlled beam mask
3) two arc-tubes (dip and main) in one "bulb"

I used type 3 as each arc is stationary and (hopefully) optimally positioned. This gave me operational main beam and dipped beam, i.e. bi-xenon. The beam cut-off on dipped was very sharp and I never got flashed and passed two MOTs. Not as good as a purpose made projector obviously.

This was the bulb: