How much would you offer for....

[MikeH]

A 944 S2 - H plate. Been stood for 2 years but looks straight and rust free. No Tax or MOT. In white. Needs 4 tyres + whatever's seized up will need to be fixed.

High miles (150+), Low owners and lots of history. All major units in the car are still original - no rebuilds.

Looking around, I reckon it's worth about 4k on the road...what would you say 'as is' ?

 

[Guest]

I wouldn't offer much, as you'll be taking a huge risk on buying it. You might be ok and not have to spend much on it, but then you could end up with a dud that costs you a fortune to get running reliably.

If it was me, I'd offer the guy a grand of maybe a grand and a half. You may get a bargain, but then you might end up having to walk away from a lemon. The price you pay has to reflect the risks.

A tip for you. If you buy it, don't try to drive it away. Take it straight to a specialist on a trailer to get the belts changes and a full service. If it hasn't moved for 2 years, the chances of something being seized and breaking, or the cam belt snapping when you get to the end of the road isn't worth it.

 

[MikeH]

Hi James...thanks for the quick reply.. I was thinking about the bottom end of that range.

I'm planning on getting him to start it....he says he does it regulary, so the engine shouldn't be seized

I reckon the big question is why it came off the road in the first place... is it just that he didn't need to use it (van for his business) or that it needed a big expenditure...

I guess the potential problem areas after a long stand are:

Brake / suspension / clutch seizure

Locks, latches and cables

Belts as you suggest

Water ingress to the cabin (no sign of that, and no condensation)

Paint damage from being sat outside


Anything else spring to mind?

 

[Guest]

I think you've more or less covered it. Remember that any rubber seals will quite possibly have hardened up or perished over the years, so you can expect to see some oil leaks when you start using it.

Ideally, you want to give the brakes and suspension a full strip down and rebuild, but that probably isn't a practical solution. Give it a damned good service before you get it on the road, and then run it very very gently for a while and let everything come out of hibernation gently.

 

[Diver944]

Obviously you need a big service with belts and camchain and all fluids straight away, but on top of that if most of the major parts are still original then you have to make provision for the following 'just in case' items:

Shocks
water pump
fuel pipes
brake pipes
brake callipers
clutch

Without an MOT then the car is really worth the absolute bottom end of the price range as James said, because it's basically an unknown quantity whether it is even road worthy. It could be a gamble that pays huge dividends, but if you go in with your eyes open and a possible £3k in your pocket then at least you won't get stung

 

[Fen]

It might still be rotten even if it doesn't look it - they rust from the inside out. Take out the plastic grills in the door shuts and see how it looks in there, and carefully prod along the sill, especially where there is a seam below the rear corner of the door.

 

[Guest]

It sounds like an ideal car to make into a track car though. You'd strip it down to a bare shell first anyway, and then service or replace everything as you put it back together.

As long as the shell os sound of course.

 

[MikeH]

Time to start reading through the detail of the buyer's guides then [8|]

What's a rough cost for a full service + cam chain (is it belt + chain, or just chain?) at a specialist?

Are there particular oil seals which are prone to leakage, or is it fairly random?


@ Paul - when you say £3k do you mean as a repairs budget, rather than a purchase cost?

 

[MikeH]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Obviously you need a big service with belts and camchain and all fluids straight away, but on top of that if most of the major parts are still original then you have to make provision for the following 'just in case' items:

Shocks
water pump
fuel pipes
brake pipes
brake callipers
clutch

Without an MOT then the car is really worth the absolute bottom end of the price range as James said, because it's basically an unknown quantity whether it is even road worthy. It could be a gamble that pays huge dividends, but if you go in with your eyes open and a possible £3k in your pocket then at least you won't get stung

Sorry I should have been clearer

by major units I meant engine, box, diff (sorry for the car industry jargon...I used to work in it)

I haven't looked at the history yet, but the other bits are definitely on my mind.

 

[944psi]

I bought a car in similar circumstances earlier this year. Mine is an 91H S2 with 140k on the clock (Clicky Here) It had been standing although it had been mot'd and taxed each year and had any issues dealt with so it had new brake pipes on the rear, handbrake cables and tyres . It was sold to me by the previous web editor for Fast Car magazine ("Wild Slag") where it was featured as a staff car in 2001/2002. As they blagged lots of stuff for their cars the service history is scant - apart from a couple of big bills from Parrs motorsport and from CMS Porsche (Telford) who supplied it to my seller. It was advertised at £1.5k with a noisy gearbox. When I drove it, it had very noisy transmission and jumped out of gear and I embarrasingly negotiated an extra £50 off.

So far I have spent around another 1.5k. I have replaced the gearbox, rear fuel lines, cv joints, rear shocks, sunroof seals, hatch seals, rear light clusters, hatch pins (although I need a new hatch now!) service items (plugs, fluids & filters etc) return springs for the handbrakes, brake dust shields, accelerator cable, pedal rubbers and some other bits and pieces. It's nearly, very nearly on the road again - and I suppose it is then I'll find out what else I need to do.

Recently prices of reasonably maintained S2s seem to have taken a bit of a fall and wonder if I've done the right thing, i..e perhaps just spend the £££ on a decent runner. But then you'll always need to spend money to fix / maintain any 944 that you take on and at least you have the satisfaction of knowing things have been done properly.

I would say 1.5k sounds about right provding the sills are OK and the mechanicals check out.

Phil
(sorry for the ramble)

 

[MikeH]

Phil... very interesting ramble...thanks! Keep the ideas and opinions coming...

Since I found this car, I've been looking around the prices on auto trader and other sites. I've been surprised how low some of them are, and think my £4k estimate (based on Porsche Post prices, with a rough deduction for mileage and haggle room) might be a bit high.

All of this useful info that I'm getting back means that:

1. I've got more of an idea what to look for when I crawl over the car...so far we're at the see the car, leave a note through door, have a chat on the phone stage, so I haven't been in it or seen it running.

2. I'm more confident in the kind of money I want to offer, with suitable deductions for the risk of re-comissioning a car and finding a major problem, and for the aggravation of having to do the work (or at least some of it, plus the organisation)

I think £1.5k is too much, based on all that....although if you buy a 15 year old car then you always expect to spend some money, unless you pay top dollar for a minter...and even then.... Clearly, that's not the end of the 944 market that you and I have been dabbling in []