How to drive a 911 properly?
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Guest
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Marcus,
Can I suggest paying someone to do a " one on one" , coaching that is[
]
Mark at " Driving Technique" , is great, he will take you through various stages, [8D]depending on your wallet and skills required. You can contact him on http://www.bespokedrivertraining.co.uk/
Here you can start with the basics, through to full days leading up to High speed handling which uses Milford proving ground- a closed track, not open to the public.
And no, I do not have any asscociation with Driving Technique.[]
Do it
Peter
Can I suggest paying someone to do a " one on one" , coaching that is[
]Mark at " Driving Technique" , is great, he will take you through various stages, [8D]depending on your wallet and skills required. You can contact him on http://www.bespokedrivertraining.co.uk/
Here you can start with the basics, through to full days leading up to High speed handling which uses Milford proving ground- a closed track, not open to the public.
And no, I do not have any asscociation with Driving Technique.[
]Do it
Peter
Guest
New member
Driving courses - excellent idea.
There are also some good books if that is more your thing. The Club can sell you Vic Elford' s High Performance Drinving book. It is more of an interesting read than a manual but it may help.
If you want the potted summary of 911 road driving it goes something like this: slow in, fast out. Obey that rule and it is hard to go wrong. 911 driving gets interesting when you carry too much speed into the corner - especially if the road surface is slippery. The instinct is to lift or brake in order to tighten your line but this unweights the rear and with the engine hanging out back it tends to want to rotate - lift throttle oversteer. Keeping your foot on the gas is what most slightly misguidedly recommend. I say misguidedly because on the public road this can mean you still have an accident but you are now going much faster.
I am a big advocate of people learning the balance of their car so that they are comfortable with the somewhat scary prospect of a gentle lift midcorner. Unless you are confident enough to power oversteer on the public road (this requires practice, knowledge of the road and a good wide road) this seems IMHO the best option. A gentle lift accomplishes two things. First, you tighten your line. Secondly, you slow down a little. Hopefully it is not accompanied by the third thing - a spin. The trick in saving the spin is to reapply the throttle once the lift has accomplished a sufficient tightening of the line. The throttle re-transfers weight to the rear and hence grip is restored and no spin. The rear end traction of the 911 is truly magnificent. It is amazing what you can recover by re-applying the throttle. The back end will squat on both sides and give immense traction. On the racetrack it is what has made the 911 a killer track car for over three decades. It is the secret 911 advantage. Once you learn to use it, it is most enjoyable.
You can practice this gentle lift-off theory in your everyday driving. In a steady state corner try a gentle lift and a smooth re-application of power. Try coming on and off the accellerator repeatedly. You don' t have to go too fast to feel the weight transfer, so you will be in no danger of a spin. You can progressively increase the speed. A couple of laps around a big roundabout should be a good start. The aim is for you to start to feel the balance of the car and to get comfortable with the balance changing and for you to control that balance change. Get used to steering the car on the throttle, notice how a little lift will tighten the line and a little throttle will open the line. Notice that your hands and the steering wheel have not moved.
That is my personal theory anyway. I am no Vic Elford but I hope this is of some use.
Richard
There are also some good books if that is more your thing. The Club can sell you Vic Elford' s High Performance Drinving book. It is more of an interesting read than a manual but it may help.
If you want the potted summary of 911 road driving it goes something like this: slow in, fast out. Obey that rule and it is hard to go wrong. 911 driving gets interesting when you carry too much speed into the corner - especially if the road surface is slippery. The instinct is to lift or brake in order to tighten your line but this unweights the rear and with the engine hanging out back it tends to want to rotate - lift throttle oversteer. Keeping your foot on the gas is what most slightly misguidedly recommend. I say misguidedly because on the public road this can mean you still have an accident but you are now going much faster.
I am a big advocate of people learning the balance of their car so that they are comfortable with the somewhat scary prospect of a gentle lift midcorner. Unless you are confident enough to power oversteer on the public road (this requires practice, knowledge of the road and a good wide road) this seems IMHO the best option. A gentle lift accomplishes two things. First, you tighten your line. Secondly, you slow down a little. Hopefully it is not accompanied by the third thing - a spin. The trick in saving the spin is to reapply the throttle once the lift has accomplished a sufficient tightening of the line. The throttle re-transfers weight to the rear and hence grip is restored and no spin. The rear end traction of the 911 is truly magnificent. It is amazing what you can recover by re-applying the throttle. The back end will squat on both sides and give immense traction. On the racetrack it is what has made the 911 a killer track car for over three decades. It is the secret 911 advantage. Once you learn to use it, it is most enjoyable.
You can practice this gentle lift-off theory in your everyday driving. In a steady state corner try a gentle lift and a smooth re-application of power. Try coming on and off the accellerator repeatedly. You don' t have to go too fast to feel the weight transfer, so you will be in no danger of a spin. You can progressively increase the speed. A couple of laps around a big roundabout should be a good start. The aim is for you to start to feel the balance of the car and to get comfortable with the balance changing and for you to control that balance change. Get used to steering the car on the throttle, notice how a little lift will tighten the line and a little throttle will open the line. Notice that your hands and the steering wheel have not moved.
That is my personal theory anyway. I am no Vic Elford but I hope this is of some use.
Richard
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New member
Agreed. I wasn' t suggesting broadside oversteer on the public roads. But you can certainly feel the balance and weight transfer at very sensible (even legal[
]) speeds on the road without endangering anyone. You don' t need to be at the limit to feel a change in balance - in fact, it is far better to experiment with weight transfer well below the limit, for a start anyway. Track days are great (I love them) but not everyone wants to do them.R
Guest
New member
Richard/Beaky,
Have been trying the technique and understand what you mean. But would like to really understand the limits so I guess a track day is probably best.
How much do they generally cost and what' s a normal day like? (actual track time, other cars on the track at the same time, etc)
Have been trying the technique and understand what you mean. But would like to really understand the limits so I guess a track day is probably best.
How much do they generally cost and what' s a normal day like? (actual track time, other cars on the track at the same time, etc)
Marcus,
Try the www.easytrack.co.uk site for lots of info on track days
Try the www.easytrack.co.uk site for lots of info on track days
Guest
New member
PCGB runs track days for members - info available on this site or in the Club mag. Availability may now be limited as the days sell out quickly.
You can expect to pay maybe around £150 for the cheapest days and up to say £325 for a day on the full GP circuit at Silverstone with the Club. Track time is usually one 15-20 minute session per hour with maybe 7-8 sessions being completed in a day. This is normally plenty of track time and will leave you pretty tired by the end of the day. Sessions are not normally longer as it gets a bit hard on cars and driver concentration.
At PCGB days you will have sessions for beginner/intermediate/advanced and depending on the track each group will have between 7 and 25 cars more or less - on a long track like Silverstone, it is possible to easily have 25 cars on track without problems.
R
You can expect to pay maybe around £150 for the cheapest days and up to say £325 for a day on the full GP circuit at Silverstone with the Club. Track time is usually one 15-20 minute session per hour with maybe 7-8 sessions being completed in a day. This is normally plenty of track time and will leave you pretty tired by the end of the day. Sessions are not normally longer as it gets a bit hard on cars and driver concentration.
At PCGB days you will have sessions for beginner/intermediate/advanced and depending on the track each group will have between 7 and 25 cars more or less - on a long track like Silverstone, it is possible to easily have 25 cars on track without problems.
R
Guest
New member
At the risk of bringing this thread to life again, have just returned from my first track day at Bedford Autodrome (Autocar/Porsche event).
Absolutely loved it and really got a good feel for the car. And no damage, touch wood, although I did manage to lose the 996 Carrera 2 on loan from Porsche (!) on the first bend. Was a little heavy on the gas, apparently.
Thanks for the advice re: track days - well worth it.
Now can someone put my brakes back the way they were before?
Absolutely loved it and really got a good feel for the car. And no damage, touch wood, although I did manage to lose the 996 Carrera 2 on loan from Porsche (!) on the first bend. Was a little heavy on the gas, apparently.
Thanks for the advice re: track days - well worth it.
Now can someone put my brakes back the way they were before?
ClubSport 911
New member
Hi Marcus - I had the pleasure (?) of seeing you yesterday during your " manouvre" at my local track - Bedford. Nice one. This thread is full of good advice, so I won' t add too much except, be careful where you try to induce your " power on / lift off oversteer" that Richard advised...
I did it in my car on the A422 / A5 roundabout in MK and got " brown trouser-all-over the-roadsteer" as the tyres failed to actually touch the ground due to an 8" layer of diesel spilt by all the lorries heading out of the nearby BP petrol station...
My god, did I learn how to recover the situation that day.
My passenger thought it was a thrill-a-minute ride !
I thought I' d stack the car in the worst possible way. .....
Steve
I did it in my car on the A422 / A5 roundabout in MK and got " brown trouser-all-over the-roadsteer" as the tyres failed to actually touch the ground due to an 8" layer of diesel spilt by all the lorries heading out of the nearby BP petrol station...
My god, did I learn how to recover the situation that day.
My passenger thought it was a thrill-a-minute ride !
I thought I' d stack the car in the worst possible way. .....
Steve
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