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I have a 718 manual Sports sus 718 Cayman GTS for the day
- Thread starter Motorhead
- Start date
I am the king of unbiased reviews. but it will be direct, I am no writer, vlogger lolMotorhead said:A truly unbiased, objective appraisal without prejudice would be nice D - if you really think you can manage it..!
Jeff
Steve Brookes
Moderator
MrDemon said:I also have some ear plugs.......
what would you guys want to know/ hear about.
I'll keep it 100% Porsche for you![]()
Simply...why have you got one for the day? [
Brian_Innes
Member
If your one day's experience of the 718 GTS is truly honest, omitting the usual clichéd utterances on the flat-4t sound, I'll be expecting some plusses on the big torque, better steering and brakes, and precision, yet playful handling. Not that I'm putting words into your mouth.........
Brian
Other reports say it's just that bit sharper than the 981 GTS .
Should be a good read .
I could review it vs my S1 which I hated and kept 2 months and it would be a glowing review, but really I need to review it as a sports car vs other Porsches you can buy at the same price and for that it's not going to be a glowing review. Cayman R vs fully modded 987.2 Spyder vs GT4 vs 981 Spyder vs 991.2 GT3 vs 718 GTS !!!
I am going to have to spend more time on the review,
in the mean time here is my static rev of the GTS with a very high quality mic, I actually like the crow.
https://youtu.be/7e6ZmVqSQVw
I have watched 4 reviews tonight from the big boys to try and get a feel what people are saying about it and I don't agree with any of the main mag reviews on the car !
I'll say one thing it's damm fast, but I'll try and write up something late tomorrow.
Brian_Innes
Member
Just do your own review of the 718 GTS, never mind what the "big boys" say in their mag reviews. They have to serve a wider audience, and their words are chosen as such. They can also have a herd mentality when it comes to engines.
On this forum, we know our Porsches, and many of us have had wide experience of models, engines, and transmissions. Not forgetting suspension evolutions either.
As a model, the 718 GTS does not excite me as an viable upgrade to my 718 CS, as it has all the go-faster options and Alcantara trim that the GTS has. An extra 15bhp and smart nose job doesn't entice me to spend ££££'s on moving on to the 718 GTS. My 718CS is just as quick, and, now has PS4S N0 tyres.........
Take your time on the review and I'm sure it will be entertaining reading.
Brian
Steve Brookes
Moderator
BJ Innes said:As a model, the 718 GTS does not excite me as an viable upgrade to my 718 CS, as it has all the go-faster options and Alcantara trim that the GTS has. An extra 15bhp and smart nose job doesn't entice me to spend ££££'s on moving on to the 718 GTS. My 718CS is just as quick, and, now has PS4S N0 tyres.........
Just seen it mentioned on another forum that an article in Autocar about the new BMW M2 competition has a footnote that mentions it will have to compete against the 'forthcoming 414 bhp Cayman R driven by a 3 litre turbo charged flat six'. I've not seen this article myself and have no idea how reliable the information (speculation) is....but I think it might interest you Brian!
Steve Brookes said:Just seen it mentioned on another forum that an article in Autocar about the new BMW M2 competition has a footnote that mentions it will have to compete against the 'forthcoming 414 bhp Cayman R driven by a 3 litre turbo charged flat six'. I've not seen this article myself and have no idea how reliable the information (speculation) is....but I think it might interest you Brian!
You couldn't make this stuff up!
Unless you were a "journalist"
Brian_Innes
Member
I've just listened to the video Ralph posted of the new Spyder circulating on track. It could indeed be a 3.0 flat-6 turbo in that particular car. I've some experience of that engine a couple of years ago at an OPC 911 test driving day in Inverness. The engine in the test mule Spyder on Ralph's video clip sounds remarkably similar to the 3.0 flat-6 turbo in the 991.2 Carrera S.
I'll not be disappointed if Porsche choose this engine for the new 982 GT4.......... Note, 982, not 718.
Purely for curiosity as to getting an allocation slot, I have already registered my interest at a couple of OPC's.
Back on topic,
David, when you are writing your review, remember the 718 GTS you tested is not a GT car, so no-one is expecting GT car standards of performance from this "cooking" 718 Cayman. Also, prospective owners of the 718 GTS will be unlikely to consider modifying a 987 Cayman R as an alternative fun track car. The 718 GTS is purely a marketing tool to eek out the left-over parts bin on the options lists and rake-in the profits for Porsche. Taking the 718 GTS as a driver's car, I'll be interested in your comments on the handling, drivability, and accessible power delivery, rather than trying to pitch it against BMW's, Audi's, Focus RS's and the like. None of these come close to a Porsche in precision and finesse from a keen driver's perspective.
I'm looking forward to reading your piece.
Brian
![718gts1.jpg](http://www.clubspyder.co.uk/718/718gts1.jpg)
I have decided reviewing cars is very hard lol
so I will do some points as I cannot do a write up, nor can I post any vids.
1st off it's a good looking car imo, I got comments throughout the day and at Petrol Stations on the car, to me it's a nicer smoother shape than the 981 and with that shark nose looks aggressive. Inside some things are nicer than the 981 some not, the PCM tech of course is at last upto date and very nice. One does expect the full GTS pack on the GTS cars and for resale GTS cars need GTS packs. This does pose a cost issue, the car I tested was circa £74k !!! and was a manual with the basic seats !! that's the same as I paid for my GT4 new with a very nice set of options !!! If you wanted to add PDK, PCCB's and Buckets(or 18 ways) to this car the RRP would be £85k and that's a lot of money in any ones book for a Cayman.
The cars also added weight to it even though the engine is down sized the car now weighs 1480kg with PDK or 1450kg manual ! that is also an issue I'll come onto later. That engine !!! yes it sounds better than the 718 S for sure, it's been tweaked, but it's a rough sounding unit and now sounds even more Beetle/Scooby than before, where the 718 sounded a bit diesel/Scooby, so the sound is better and more meaty to a point when I pulled up some one thought I had a V8 and asked what BHP I was pushing 550bhp !! to which I had to just say "nope just 360" and smile, that BHP figure brings me onto performance it's only 10bhp off the new 911T and boy does this 718 move !!!! lag lag lag..... ok the car has lag, I have driven the 991.2 F6 turbo and you don't really notice lag, I have a 300 bhp Golf CS and again lag is very small, YOU notice lag in this car :-( so you do have to plan the throttle input just a tad. but when it kicks in you get pushed into your seat, I always pick up a friend who loves and knows a lot about cars and do a route we both know, he says it feels very fast and gives you that push only a turbo can (he owns a 981 S and the 991.2 GTS) I can back up this performance with some new record speeds at some points in my run , ie quite shocking speeds one might say. Over taking is easy, the car once the lag has gone is picking up speed like not many cars do. Not like the Flat 6 when you need to be >4.5k.
let say my golf can hit 105 go faster units on one straight bit, my Spyder hits 112 of these made up go faster units, the 718 GTS hit 126 of these go faster units. 126 go faster made up units is moving.
So we have a good looking, very fast, 2 Seater sports car, my work is done, if you want a fast car with the nice Badge and up to date PCM buy the 718 GTS.....
Of course that would be a nice place to stop, But there are issues.
While the performance is now on another level for a Cayman, the added speed and the added weight (I said I would come back to the weight) has brought up a braking issue, to a point my front brakes ran out of use, faded and then smoke filled the air from both front wheels with that nice smell filling the cabin, the cars now under braked, while I thought it had the 981 Spyder upgraded 6 pots with 350mm disks, the GTS still has 4 pots with 330mm disks and that's now not good enough !!! Owners of the Cayman R got fade from a 1295KG car with 330BHP with less top speeds at the end of the straights, this 718 is going to be going a lot faster at the end of any straights, and the brakes are not track ready !! they are not really road ready if you really want to drive the balls off it 2 up.
Steering, the bloody EPS again (stopped me buying a 981) why on why do they not USE GT software on the normal cars !! no one wants steering this vague !!! it's poor vs all my other cars even my Golf has nicer steering feel, it's feels no better than the 981's. even my 981 Spyder feels better and that's not that great vs the GT4 and GT3. Please Porsche add the GT software to normal EPS cars, it's free and it used to be what set Porsche apart, now Porsche steering is no better than Audi's top models, it's prob VW/Audi software these days , but it's a shame when the GT4 and the new GT3 EPS is so good.
It's not bad, but in the wet it will not offer what you want at the limit, and while it's far far better than my Audi S1 (that was very poor) it is no better than my Golf ! (which I actually like the feel of as it happens) why manufacturers have different EPS maps down a range of cars is odd when we know they can all be better now !
Handling , it's too safe, it handles the same as my mates 981, push's like a **** then with a slight lift the rear comes into play too much, the standard geo's are NOT for drivers or any track work, this can be fixed of course but not many people go and get a fast road geo done, NOT even the GT4 boys :-(
I hate massive understeer and backed up with lift off over steer you might see a few in hedge's if people panic with that under steer and lift off you will prob spin if you are Sports + mode and don't move the steering wheel. I ran all day Sports + and no aids this was annoying as Sports plus puts PASM to sport and PASM on is too hard and bumpy !! the dampers need to always be in PASM off mode imo esp at speed. I did get the lights flashing with Sports + still so again PSM is not as good as the GT cars 2 button system. I used Sports + to get the auto blip
so I dropped the car back took a look at the MPG and it was 13.8mpg !!! wtf !!! I also did a load of normal road driving so to ave 13.8mpg was BAD !
On track it's going to be GT4 bad and if you only went out for a hoon on a Sunday I guess it's going to be circa 11mpg foot in.
The dealer did say he had most people say "this car does poor mpg" so normal driving people are noticing it's very poor on fuel.
What does the market offer you, the Audi TTRS and the BMW M2 due out in 2 months, both circa £50k both over 400bhp both with amazing engines, both £20k to £30k cheaper (great discounts on the TTRS to be had) ! Both faster for road use or off the lights, I get to drive a new TTRS (another mate has one), it sounds amazing, it's very nice inside, it does over 20mpg easy, it's rocket ship supercar fast !!! we got a deal on a fully loaded new one for £45k !! the new M2 looks interesting due to being able to buy a manual 400BHP car with 6 pistons
So I got back into my 987.2 Spyder and it felt slow !!! but it sounded amazing
For £82k (I would be specing PCCB's and buckets) the cars not for me, I cannot get on with the steering or engine the car lacks emotion for me. It's fast yes,(it's too fast for the road to now be fun) a fun car needs to give me a feel of excitement , it has to have more cylinders than my Golf, it has to talk to me and get me to want to go out for the fun of it, it has to sound expensive, it really also has to be slower, modern cars are too fast to have fun in !!!
£80k gets you an as new GT4, £55k gets your a Cayman 981 GTS with very low miles and that gem of the 3.4 Flat 6, £45k gets you that TTRS if you want that on road super car performance, £75k gets you a 981 Spyder with working brakes, the 3.8 NA engine and better steering. £75k also gets you back into a 997 GT3 !!! people say you cannot put new cars vs old, BUT you can, if some one has £80k to spend they can buy old and new, it's a given some one with £80k will look at what they can buy 2nd hand at the same money esp now all these rarer cars are low miles and loose less money to own. lets also not forget a base model 992 due out soon, for some a Porsche = a 911.
Steve Brooks had circa £80k I guess and went GT4 over this 718 GTS and the GTS is prob a bit faster.
Pick of the bunch the 981 Spyder for £75k, My older cars feel older and look older, people don't want that really, I like them , not many other people seem too. so that's rules out the R and 987.2 Spyder for many esp with that roof, I love them though. the GT4 is a great car, but it's more a track car imo great value if you want to do a few track days with PCGB, great brakes, great electrics. My GT3 is not worth bringing up they are now £180k and in a whole new performance bracket and price. The 981 GTS, same issue with steering and poor brakes at the limits, but the normal 981 S Boxster has to be one of todays best value sports cars for the main stream and can be had for £40k.
For all it's quirks the 981 Spyder ticks a lot of boxes for a lot of keen car enthusiasts, it's quite new, it has that 911 3.8 engine, it has all the 718 chassis braces and tweaks, it has that faster Turbo S steering rack, it has the 6 pot 350mm brakes, it has a usable roof, it has the looks, it has the flat 6 sound ,it's also safer money imo. and last Friday when the sun came out you can drop the top !!! (I did not as I took the 987.2 Spyder out) (and that's my issue I like the old one more).
If you have to buy new then the 718 GTS will not disappoint in the performance and for many that's all that matters, how many people care about steering feel and engine sounds ! There are a few reviews out, inc. a couple of guys in one, and they loved it, but I think they just loved the performance, as they came from a 2.7 981.
Look Porsche don't make bad cars, you cannot even buy a new one these days most are sold out, what you will have is a group of very loyal people who like what they like, take this car to classic's in the castle, you will get shunned and put in the over flow car park.
Give it a loyal Cayman R owner and once they have got over the performance, most will be happy to get back into their R's
There is a market for this car for sure, any non Porsche owner moving up to the Porsche badge from lets say Audi or BMW are going to be blown away with this car, that's a given.
But in Porsche world we have massive groups of people happy to stay put in the era they like and I fit into that 987.2 era esp the R and 987.2 Spyder.
We also have a big 981 Following, newer tech far better PDK system and you get to have that iconic Flat 6 sound.
GT3's have a following, the Turbo 911's have a following no ones going to swap what they love.
It's a win for Porsche they can do no wrong and they have made another class leading car all be at quite a high price point.
Brian_Innes
Member
It bore all the hallmarks of your already well documented dislike of the 718 engine, EPS steering, and poor value for money. Nevertheless, a cool review, in every sense of the word.
Regarding value for money, I recently configured a 718 GTS in a solid colour, with bucket seats, PCCB, and wider wheels, for a tad over £75k. Not sure what other extras a keen driver would add, to mark it up an extra £10k to match your suggested £85k figure.
On your EPS steering comments, I must completely disagree. My 718 CS has the Power Steering Plus map. You didn't mention whether your test car had this option fitted. I can only say that in my experience of 981 Caymans, my 718 has far better steering feel and response than the previous model. True, it doesn't quite match the sublime steering wheel rim "fizz" of the CR, but in my opinion it comes pretty close. Tyres and geo also affect steering response as someone of your experience will well know.
On the handling, the understeer tendencies you mentioned are probably due to your test car's geo set up and the tyres it was fitted with. (you didn't mention tyres). You also stated that you selected Sport Plus mode for your road test. In my experience Sport Plus mode is far too aggressive for the public road, making the suspension too firm and lacking in compliance for the bumps and ripples on what we have to call normal roads these days. Selecting Sport Plus under such conditions will also increase understeer. On my 718 CS I use Sport mode most of the time, leaving Sport Plus for when on track days where the smooth tarmac is better suited to the firm suspension setting.
On the fuel economy, your overall figure of 13.8 mpg is very poor, even by my standards of hooning along Highland roads. My overall average is 28.2 mpg. On the track it is 10.0 mpg. I can occasionally see 31mpg to 34mpg on a 7th gear "Normal" mode intercity convoy run, but I have to agree that generally, fuel economy on the 718 is not a strong point. At least if you are using Sport mode and manual shifting with the paddles or central stick. My previous CR had better fuel economy.
The brakes on the 718 are tested severely on the track. Particularly two-up and on circuits where big stops are frequent. Some 718 owners have already upgraded their brakes for track day use, and I can fully understand this. However, for normal road use, even hilly Highland road use, the 718 brakes are perfectly adequate. They are a lot more adequate than the puny OE brakes on my previous CR. For the cooking cars, Porsche fit brakes with normal road use in mind. To that extent I consider the 718's brakes are good enough.
Despite the above issues, I enjoyed reading your review David. According to recently published figures from Porsche the 718 model Cayman delivered 25,114 718's in 2017. This compares with 25,704 deliveries of 981's in it's heyday of 2013. So in spite of the engine, the 718 is selling in comparable numbers to the 981. Some people must like it.
The 718 will always be controversial, and nothing will ever change that. For me, the car is good, and a step forward in general terms. I'm now currently awaiting developments on the forthcoming GT4 before I decide what the future holds for my version of 718 CS.
Brian
turbo jonny
PCGB Member
Also interested to know what tyres you had and whether that was part of the lower tolerance to 981 steering feel between you and Brian . I am happy enough with it on my PDK 981 , but when in a more sporty mood
the 987 is the only ticket for sure .
I went through a lot of this thinking recently with a budget of around £80k .
The 981 Spyder was nearly the choice for me but
In the end i went with 2 cars - 987.2 Spyder manual and 981 Boxster S PDK
Both mint condition cars , and together they cover more bases than any single car could
for the same money .
turbo jonny
PCGB Member
Great bang for the buck , but not a high priority . Both cars are fast enough for
my mostly road use . I had the 981 on track and it was a little slow on the straights ,
but that was fine for a bit of fun , Maybe in a year or two ..
all these cars will do over 100mph in a blink of an eye.
I don't drive my 987 Spyder and wish it was faster. my GT4 was too fast for the road to have fun in, the 718 GTS is too fast for the road to have fun in.
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