I'M SCARED - DO I NEED A WARRANTY ?

GOOFY · Jul 10, 2005

Just purchased a 1998 Boxter 2.5 privately, with only 19k miles on clock. Last service 14k miles 18mths ago. No oil leak at present , nor sign of.. Should I take out warranty for engine failure and RMS ? Can you still get this on an old Porsche ? How much do you think ?

Regards and absolutely besotted with the car.[

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jac in a box · Jul 11, 2005

Sorry to see no one has replied to your question Goofy, so I'l give you my 2p's worth!

In a word yes.

It's not cheap at a cost of £725 plus a fee of around £100 for a pre-warranty issue inspection.
Yes, it's a lot of money but it does buy a cosy blanket of security.
I had the misfortune of "blowing" my engine last year at around 13k miles. The repair process was so stress free and financially painless (new engine and back to me in around 4 -5 days).

Given that such failures are rare and that lightning "shouldn't" strike twice, I'll just bite the bullet and carry on renewing; simply factor in the warranty fee to the cars annual running costs.

IIRC the warranty can be bought on cars up to 10 years old.

Jackie

oliver · Jul 11, 2005

If the car is 7 years old/19k miles, and in good order, then it's well past the time when it would have suffered a premature failure and too young (mileage wise) to suffer from a wear related failure. So, I'd say that you have nothing to worry about.

The Porsche Warranty is probably dis-proportionately expensive to the value of the car. However, if you want peace of mind it may be worth checking out someone like Warranty Direct. They used to do a Boxster Warranty for around £400 which, I believe, includes RMS.

Guest · Jul 11, 2005

Hi,
You guy's are scaring me!!

I've just bought an 02 Boxster with 14k miles!!
Should I be worrying!?

nemc · Jul 11, 2005

Ok therre are a few exceptions but isn't the reputation of Porsche ..one built on reliability?

Guest · Jul 11, 2005

I've had four Porsche's and all have had warranty work:-

01 Boxster S = Wheel Bearings (mileage 16000)
03 911 C2 = Alarm Issue (12000)
03 911 TT = Oil Leak (engine out and in) (24000)
05 Boxster S = Trim Issue's.(1400)

So from my point of view I wouldn't own a Porsche outside a warranty because the piece of mind of a warranty is priceless. The oil leak was 35hours labour alone so you only need to the math on that one....[

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If your already worrying about get the Porsche 114 point check and get the warranty in place. Agree with Oliver though that in proportion to the cost of the car it maybe worth a check with Warranty Direct. Or have a chat with an independant dealer and see what conditions there are to join their warranty scheme.

Dapster · Jul 11, 2005

If your engine blows on a 996 TT you'll be looking down the barrel of a 25 grand bill for a new engine. For a '98 Boxster, sticking £700 per year into a high interest savings account may be a better insurance policy. To ensure the Porsche warranty remains valid, do you have to keep the OPC service history up to date? In which case, you've got to add the x% premium of OPC vs Independent to the calculation. You may be looking at £700 (warranty) and £200 (OPC cost over Independent) as your annual insurance against a catastrophic failure which on a '98 Boxster doesn't sound like sensible maths.

GOOFY · Jul 12, 2005

Hi

Many many thanks for the useful advice.

This is something that has really bothered me as everything I have read or heard prior to my purchase never mentioned engines blowing up or RMS. Indeed I have a copy of a comparison between a TVR and Boxter with comments from an independent that even did not mention this - rather glorified the Porches' legendary reliability. One cannot fully enjoy a car knowing that at any moment it has a 1 in 5 chance of developing a catostrophic failure that may be extremely costly.

I will shop around with Warranty Direct, Independents (can anyone give me some reputable names) and OPC - and report back on costs and terms & conditions. If any of you are also interested then maybe we can gang together and get some discount - let me know.

Perhaps its something I should be so bold to say which PCGB could negotiate with an insurer or OPC - imagine the clout with all its members. Secondly pressure should be put on Porche as a manufacturer to resolve this issue. It is no point building a car that has such high engine specifications but blows up willy nilly. Many F1 teams can testify to that !

I am very dissapointed : quite frankly if the insurance or warranty is prohibitive I see no point in continuing Porsche ownership. If you have to pay an extra £700 a year just for peace of mind that the car will do what the manufacturer says it will without blowing up and paying a premium for owning one , then I would be a mug. A VW Golf R32 costs less to service a year.

I'll keep you posted. In the meantime I'll leave the car at home and cycle or restrict the revs to 3000 rpm - ridiculous![

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Helen Goff · Jul 12, 2005

ORIGINAL: Dapster

If your engine blows on a 996 TT you'll be looking down the barrel of a 25 grand bill for a new engine. For a '98 Boxster, sticking £700 per year into a high interest savings account may be a better insurance policy. To ensure the Porsche warranty remains valid, do you have to keep the OPC service history up to date? In which case, you've got to add the x% premium of OPC vs Independent to the calculation. You may be looking at £700 (warranty) and £200 (OPC cost over Independent) as your annual insurance against a catastrophic failure which on a '98 Boxster doesn't sound like sensible maths.

agree totally, if your car has been well looked after before you purchased it. and you continue looking after it. then put the money aside in a high interest account, enjoy the car, get it serviced at a good independant and stop worrying about it.

Mark_Bennett · Jul 12, 2005

One cannot fully enjoy a car knowing that at any moment it has a 1 in 5 chance of developing a catostrophic failure that may be extremely costly.

Where does that figure come from???
[&:]

oliver · Jul 12, 2005

I honestly despair when I read some of these threads.

It has always been the case that high performance sports cars are likely to be more expensive to run than 'bread and butter' cars. Porsche has a well deserved reputation for its engineering excellence, but even Porsches can be fallible, and the running costs can be higher than a VW or a BMW, but substantially less than a Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, TVR, etc.

As with any of these cars you can offset the risk with an insurance policy (warranty), or keep a sum aside for the unexpected. But in my experience of 23 years of Porsche ownership (including 4 Boxsters and 2 996s) these cars are phenomenal to drive and own with fabulous reliability and I've never ever had a notable warranty claim.

I believe that there is a condition known as 'forum hypochondria'. Susceptible people read about problem on a forum (and this is relevant to all major manufacturers) and then start believing they will be the next victims - just like all the food and health scares that the media like to encourage.

Either stop worrying or buy a Toyota Corolla.

daro911 · Jul 12, 2005

ORIGINAL: oliver

As with any of these cars you can offset the risk with an insurance policy (warranty), or keep a sum aside for the unexpected. But in my experience of 23 years of Porsche ownership (including 4 Boxsters and 2 996s) these cars are phenomenal to drive and own with fabulous reliability and I've never ever had a notable warranty claim.

I believe that there is a condition known as 'forum hypochondria'.

Either stop worrying or buy a Toyota Corolla.

[&o] Here Here .... My OPC recently wrote to me advising that I can now warranty my car subject to certain conditions being met for upto 9 years of age or 120K miles for a very reasonable £750.00 pa!![] As Oliver has said start a slush fund for a disaster that may never even happen [

] or buy ANY Toyo they are as bullet proof as a car can get

NicD · Jul 12, 2005

Goofy please calm down.
Your post is untrue and alarmist. One in 5 Boxsters or 996s may need an RMS replaced at some stage of their life , mostly under warranty or goodwill - hardly a big deal. Catastrophic failures are much rarer BUT if they happen, then they cost big money to fix. fact of life, Did you think you could buy a £45,000 car for £17,000 (I dont know the actual amounts involved, but for example) and spend hatchback money for the rest of its life?

So, as previously and eloquently explained, we have a choice, take the small risk or take an insurance policy. But please dont say you never knew of the (small) risks in buying an older high performance car, and please do not exaggerate these risks.

THX911 · Jul 12, 2005

ORIGINAL: GOOFY
One cannot fully enjoy a car knowing that at any moment it has a 1 in 5 chance of developing a catostrophic failure that may be extremely costly.

If it is RMS you are referring to then you also need to know that pretty much all RMS leaks are fixed under warranty or goodwill. I think you have overreacted by picking some selective comments from the forum... You have to take specialist forums as you would take any specialist media where you are allowed to voice your opinion i.e. majority of the posting will always be issues as oppose to general easy going chit-chat...

KPNut · Jul 12, 2005

Could someone please tell me where this 1 in 5 figure comes from?

20% of all post '97 911's and Boxsters need this done at some time???? I find it astonishing that any organisation could have a record like this and still claim engineering excellence, so I have to doubt the figure. I would also expect Porsche to have changed the engine design as the cars evolved to stop this from happening during the life of the engine. The warranty cost to them would be horrendous. Not to mention the field day the opposition would have if it is true.

I'd also expect this forum (the largest Porsche owners club in Europe?) to be full of ranting malcontents. In the MX5 owners club (of which I am a member) there are pages of a thread dealing with clutch judder for 03 plate cars and it's actually quite heated and vitriolic; this for a matter that is really only an inconvenience because the car still drives even if you are unlucky enough to suffer the malady. It also does not affect all the 03 plate cars, has an easy fix (a new dry plate) and probably affects, at most a few hundred owners. I would have thought that a failure in a car costing £35- £90K of the RMS type would have caused anarchy in these forums! Where is it?

I'm quite prepared to accept my reasoning may turn out to be completely wrong, but I'd like to get some evidence, better still proof.

KP

GOOFY · Jul 13, 2005

Hi all

I was always under the impression that one would be paying for engineering excellence when purchasing a Porsche. Engineering excellence should also imply reliability.

I accept servicing will be greater than a hatchback, but most hot hatches can match the engine output per litre without a 20% chance of RMS failure or catostrophic engine failure. These (Boxters) are cars less than 7yrs to nearly new - these are not vintage supercars developing 300bhp + by any means !

Also the problem is not age related so is not dependent upon whether you spend £45k or £17k - indeed it seems that if you have gone past 20,000 miles you have a lesser chance of developing the engine fault. How perverse can that be - the newer the more chance of it blowing up !!

My surprise is how Porsche have got away with this for so long! I suspect that a lot of it is swept under the carpet to protect the Porsche Brand, owners protecting their sizeable asset and saving themselves from accute embarrassment from BMW / Merc owners.

I do like car and have always hankered after one, but I suspect that what Porsche need to do is outsource the engine manufacturing. If they cannot get the reliability right either due to huge development costs or prohibitive engine manufacturing costs, then I can see this as the only way. I don't have a problem with this as probably many bits of the car are outsourced to EEC etc and in the past VW/Audi produced units. I'd rather they did this and produce reliable cars. In no way is a 20% failure rate acceptable in modern day manufacturing.

Oh and regarding swapping for a Toyota - Porsche are doing a deal with Toyota so that they (Toyota) produce the hybrid engine units ! So we may all be driving Toyotas (with a Porsche badge) in the future ![

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oliver · Jul 13, 2005

ORIGINAL: GOOFY

I suspect that a lot of it is swept under the carpet to protect the Porsche Brand, owners protecting their sizeable asset and saving themselves from accute embarrassment from BMW / Merc owners.

Er, if you venture around the multitude of other forums you will find plenty of scare stories about M3/M5 engine problems (and how you should never buy one without a BMW warranty etc) and lots of complaints about poor Mercedes build quality and dealer support. And the same will apply to many other manufacturers.

There are probably a very small number of people who have actually experienced a genuine such problem, but hundreds more jumping on the various band wagons making all sorts of invalid claims (based on hearsay), when they've never even had a problem, and thereby distorting the facts.

Helen Goff · Jul 13, 2005

My surprise is how Porsche have got away with this for so long! I suspect that a lot of it is swept under the carpet to protect the Porsche Brand, owners protecting their sizeable asset and saving themselves from accute embarrassment from BMW / Merc owners.

not in America they haven't...but,we are far too placid/polite so we get pi55ed (and i dare say laughed at) on by the Germans.

Dapster · Jul 13, 2005

How perverse can that be - the newer the more chance of it blowing up !!

A seeping RMS will leave a patch of oil on your garage floor over a period of time, it will not cause your engine to blow up.

a 20% chance of RMS failure or catostrophic engine failure.

Let's not confuse the RMS with catostrophic engine failure, as they are two completely separate issues and if there are statistics available, they would be measured totally separately.

I suspect that a lot of it is swept under the carpet to protect the Porsche Brand, owners protecting their sizeable asset and saving themselves from accute embarrassment from BMW / Merc owners.

I disagree. While there are many people who yearn for a Porsche and would forgive it any misbehaviour, most of us have bought the car for it's actual (amazing) qualities and if it failed to live up to its expectations, would flog it and not return until convinced that our investment is safe.

No car will ever be 100% reliable. That is engineering fact. What you have to consider is given the nature of the product, and compared to it's rivals, then is the Boxster a reliable car? I would say yes. Why? Well - the only place you hear of RMS issues is on websites - read any independent buyers guide on a 9*6 and it will say that there are some chances of oil leaks but are wildly exaggerated on internet forums.

If one in every five Porsche's sold in the world failed, the company would be killed by the warranty claims before it went bust for ultimately never being able to sell a car.

Guest · Jul 13, 2005

Here here Helen.
...And in the US, you get a replacement engine in the event of repeated RMS failures, not to mention a four year warranty.[:'(]....

Goofy, I don't think the RMS problem can really be termed a reliabilty issue; it is, as far as I can gather (not an assertion), more to do with a manufacturing fault whereby 'out of true castings' result in a nonconcentric crank i.e shaft run-out, which is commonly believed to be the cause of seal failure: Therefore, repeated seal replacement often proves fruitless.

From what I have read, on this forum and others, I personally conclude that in most cases seal problems generally only result in seeps and weeps and seal replacement only becomes necessary if oil loss becomes significant.

As per advice above, certainly give consideration to a warranty - I had similar concerns to yourself (I got drawn in to all the horror stories) and I opted for the warranty to cover me in the very unlikely event of engine failure. Now I'm not worrying at all. The cost hurts, but the warranty certainly promotes restful sleep.

I wouldn't suggest you go out and buy a Toyota Corolla though [:-](sorry Mike)