IMPORTANT: New RMS Replacement procedure

[Guest]

Please note the following PNA TSB procedure which your OPC may not be aware of.
It applies to ALL 996 models regardless of year.

During RMS replacement, it is in your own interest to see that your OPC engineer adheres to this procedure.

The bolts are referred to as "Blue coated bolts".

Happy Xmas to all.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Berny

Do you have pages 2 & 3 of the bulletin? If so, any chance you could post these as well?

Happy Christmas to all,

 

[Guest]

Cheers for that... I just hope I dont have to use that document...

 

[Tool Pants]

This is all 3 pages of the bulletin for the Boxster, which is identical for the 996. Both bulletins were released July 26, 2004. These are prepared by Porsche Cars North America for the US service departments.

How come I have never seen bulletins for the UK market on the UK message boards? You must have something like we do. In the US these bulletins have to be made available to the public. Jeff

http://home.jps.net/~mjlopez/images/Box%20crank%20bolts%207-26-05.pdf

Bolts

 

[NicD]

Guys,

here is a more relaxed view on RMS that just came on the renlist boxster email ring

Subject: RMS...
From: "John Cullen, Jr." <jncullen@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:05:48 -0500
X-Message-Number: 1

Not meaning to sound too frank, but.... Porsches have more or less = always leaked oil. There are three kinds of RMS leaks. =20

1. Damp or wet seal, that you don't fix right away. This is where you = see oil, and the motor gets wet, and you drip a drop here and there. You = fix this one when you need a clutch.

2. A dribble seal, that leaks enough oil to leave puddles and have you constantly checking your oil level, and adding oil. This one, is beyond = an annouyance, and you need to fix it. There is a chance, that Porsche = will say your engine case is out of spec and you need a new engine. In = warranty, this isn't a problem. Out of warranty, you need to spend your money and take your chances.

3. The sell your car leak, is when you have fixed a wet seal or a = dribble seal, and it doesn't stay dry enough to keep you happy with your car, so = you sell it. (or worse, fix it again, and sell it quick before it leaks =
again)

As far as I'm concerned. This RMS talk is way overplayed. Of all the Boxsters I know, only one has had needed RMS, under warranty, and was = never talked about again. What is annoying about the RMS is it is 800 - 1000 labor for a $5 (or $25) part. =20

Now that you 'need' special tools to check and install a RMS, everyone = is 'supposed' to goto the dealer to get their work done. =20

This RMS problem is no different than any air cooled Porsche or VW the = past 40 years. If it leaks, when you put a clutch in, you put a new seal in, = if it leaks again, you have to learn how to live with it, or sell the car.

 

[Tool Pants]

If John is from the United States then he must live in a very small town with just one Boxster. I live in Silicon Valley where Porsches are a dime a dozen. I have been Boxstering for almost 6 years and have met hundreds of Boxster and 996 owners.

I have known the mechanics at my local dealership for as long, and since my dealership is 10 minutes away from where I work I stop by at least once a week and talk to them in the shop. On any given day there can be 100 Porsches waiting for service. I see the Boxsters and 996s on the lifts with the transmissions out for a seal replacement. I have watched a seal replacement so I could better understand the issue. One of the mechanics, the foreman, is a good friend and he puts on technical sessions for us. Last year I asked him to put on a technical session at the dealership, and to specifically discuss the seal issue. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15&st=0&#entry24

If you look at renntech.org you will see that I put on a work on cars days were local owners come over for help in working on the Boxsters or 996s. I have been doing this for a few years. Sometimes we get as many as 20 cars at one of these events. We have had oil dripping on the ground from the seal on cars at these events. Sometimes when I am under their car I can see the oil film and drips from a seal that is not bad enough to be dumping oil on the ground. I tell the owner to take the car in as most still have something left on their 4 year warranty.

When I started out in 1999 on the Boxster message boards the RMS was an old issue then. I wish I had started keeping a record back then of how many local owners had a seal replacement, and if it was a permanent fix. I can think of a few owners who have had multiple seal replacements. I can think of 2 or 3 who had engine replacements after a replacement seal leaked. I can think of one lady owner who had multiple seal replacements, a replacement engine was put in, and the replacement engine leaked! Porsche ended up buying back her car because we have a lemon law in California. She bought a new 2002 and the seal in that car leaked as well! She was at one of our work on cars days with her 996 and oil was dripping on the ground so fast that I jacked her car up to see where it was comming from. Local owner Boxster owner Jean (we call him Frenchy) had 5 seal replacements, 3 rebuilt engines, and 1 new engine. The replacement engines were due to the inablity to fit a seal on the original engine that did not leak. http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2166&st=40&p=11089&#entry11089

The RMS talk is overplayed, unless it happens to you or someone you know. John has lower expectations than me for a modern day Porsche. Jeff

 

[Guest]

Well said Tool Pants! As we now live in the 21st century it would be nice to own products 'fit for the purpose' - which is the case with most of a Porsche - BUT - oil seals that do not seal are not 'fit for the purpose' and as a consequence let the marque down. I can remember the days when 'drip trays' were a must beneath cars - do we have to return to those days simply because Porsche cannot get an oil seal to do the job? Roll on lemon laws over here[]

 

[NicD]

Jeff,

sorry, but except for the absurdly low experience of RMS failures, I agree with some of what this guy is saying. If the leak is bad, you get it fixed, otherwise, depends who will pay for it. It is easy to get over excited by the RMS issue. Porsche should/Must fix the problem permanently but it doesn't seem this is going to happen any time soon, certainly for existing cars.

I did the survey of 1200 Boxster owners in the Club earlier this year, Of the 50% who replied, 25% had experienced RMS at some point! This is way too high to be overlooked BUT its how you react that's important. Absolutely no point to let it dominate your life or your driving.

I have owned three Boxsters, From an early 2.5 in April '97 to an 03 model now. I never had any problem with the 2.5, in fact over this side of the Atlantic, we never heard of RMS failures for the first years. I learned that my 2000 model S needed a seal replaced only when I traded it in on the 03 S. This 03 though leaked quite badly after 5 months and needed a second seal (just) at the two year service a few months ago. Though if it had not been at the end of the warranty, I would have let it carry on for a while.

When some of the the independent specialist sell on these cars, in their words "just wipe the oil off" and carry on.

Now for these few owners that need seal after seal, in other words a new engine or gearbox, it IS a major deal and Porsche has let some of these very badly down. But I asked Club members in this situation to come forward, and very few have, so does not appear widespread.

So for the rest of us, it should not spoil the joy of ownership.

btw, we have reasonably numbers of Boxster/996 gatherings and drips of oil underneath are not that common, but then maybe I don't go looking for them.

 

[Tool Pants]

In my student days I had a Sunbeam Alpine, Triumph GT6, BSA motorcycle, and two Fiat X 1/9s. All leaked to some extent, but I had a drip pan.

When those vehicles were gone I threw the drip pan away when I bought a Toyota truck and two Honda motorcycles, as it was no longer needed. Porsche makes nothing. They assemble parts together made by other companies. They should outsource their problem to the Japanese if they cannot figure it out themselves. I am just suprised Porsche has not come out with a very expensive Tequipment oil drip pan, with an embossed Porsche crest on it of course.[]

If you read the message boards most people find out they have an oil leak only when the car is on a lift at a dealer for service. Otherwise, they would never know. These days very few people work on their cars anymore, let alone get under it. At least that is the way it is in the US.

I will tell the Krazy Kalifornians to stop looking under their cars for oil drips.

 

[NicD]

Love it Jeff!


btw its -1.5C here so if under the car, we wouldn't emerge alive again. But love the crisp frosty days with blue sky and sun.

Have a great New Year

Nic

 

[Tool Pants]

Attempts to convert us Yanks to the metric system have failed, so -1.5C could be the temperature on Mars for all I know.

Our winters consists of some rain. In fact, this picture was taken in December at a work on cars day. We had a contest to see who could do the 30,000 mile service first. Aileen and I on her black Boxster, and Loren and Chad on his speed yellow 996. When we started to do the spark plug change it began to rain a bit, so I told Aileen to get an umbrella and kept on working. Then the 996 team, who had stopped working, complained they did not have an umbrella. So we gave them one.

The Boxster team finished long before the 996 team. They cried foul. Something about me being slow at handing over the tools, or me giving them the wrong tools.

 

[Guest]

-1.5C = 29F. []

 

[garyandjanet]

ORIGINAL: NicD


Now for these few owners that need seal after seal, in other words a new engine or gearbox, it IS a major deal and Porsche has let some of these very badly down. But I asked Club members in this situation to come forward, and very few have, so does not appear widespread.

So for the rest of us, it should not spoil the joy of ownership.

btw, we have reasonably numbers of Boxster/996 gatherings and drips of oil underneath are not that common, but then maybe I don't go looking for them.

Very Well said