In praise of new (standard) Turbo suspension

[Lowtimer]

My 1990, 86,000 mile Turbo is now back home following the latest phase of its rolling restoration. This time the task was a complete suspension refit carried out (as with the earlier general mechanical refurb) by Hartech in Bolton. After much soul searching, I went for factory stuff rather than aftermarket: all new bushes, new standard dampers, and a geo setup. The only change I made from the original spec was getting the uprated 968 castor mounts to sharpen the steering response a bit.

I went for standard because I wanted a compliant car capable of working well on fairly poor surfaces, as the roads I frequently drive on around the Dales and the North Yorkshire moors can be quite rough. (For much the same reason I am on 16" wheels and intend to stay on 16".) I considered the KW V3 setup carefully, and a lot of people talk about the KW being more comfortable than the factory suspension, but when you drill down into it, what they usually seem to be comparing it with is factory M030, and invariably old, clapped-out M030 at that.

So, yesterday morning I set off in the car back over the Pennines to North Yorkshire. And what a pleasant experience it was. I have had cars partially re-bushed and re-dampered before many times, so was expecting it to be better, and it was not horrible before it went in. But what I was most surprised by was the sense of calm, solidity and unflappable quiet competence that the car now conveys. Whilst still benefiting from a firm, agile platform the car has acquired a generous side-order of the feeling of a high speed luxury express, which I like very much.Road noise is reduced, and a lot of old creaks and thumps and rattles have simply gone away. Irregularities that would have been loudly heard (and felt) now pass by with no more than a muted shrug from the car.

The anti-roll bars have not been changed but have been rebushed, and this has significantly reduced the roll in medium speed, 50 - 60 mph corners, presumably thanks to the better location of the bars themselves. They also seem to be working better in unison - the car is better balanced than before. The car turns in better and is much more composed during power on / off variations in mid corner.

The steering is better at all speeds - it seems lighter and more positive at low speeds, and not so 'loose' at high speeds.

It's early days, and I have not chucked it around hard yet, but I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure for the dedicated track day enthusiast there are better setups, but for a calm, capable high speed GT which can soak up the miles on all kinds of road, in all kinds of weather, and which can still dance on the moors when the time is right, I can't imagine it getting much better than this. Money well spent, I reckon.

Next port of call: Daytona Coachworks in a few weeks' time.

 

[TTM]

Interesting feedback, thanks.

Did you really have all the bushes replaced, includng the rather large ones holding the rear axle onto the shell?
I was wondering if there would be any benefit to replacing these, especially on a high mileage car.

 

[Lowtimer]

I must admit we didn't change those. The Hartech boys persuaded me they could see absolutely no benefit in doing it, and they know that I'm quite a fundamentalist in terms of "if in doubt, renew it", so I figure they meant it. Mind you, it might be a different cas with a higher mileage and / or older car. I guess if mine were a 1982 with 250,000 rather than a 1990 with 86,000, or for a car that's spent a hard life on the track, or been extensively modified, it might be worth doing.

 

[Suffolk944]

That all sounds like an excellent result, refreshing these cars suspension (down whatever path is chosen) often leads to something of a revelation as to just how superbly they do handle.

 

[ghost]

Nice write up. Cheers for taking time to do this. I've been investigating suspension lately. I was thinking of changing to the Spax units, but I don't want an overly hard ride, so you have given me food for thought.

 

[Lowtimer]

Glad it's helped. I was not able to find much written about new standard suspension so thought it worth making a posting.

Some people suggest that the standard dampers are past their best after 40,000 miles, whilst other makes last longer, but 40,000 miles will be eight to ten years for me, and I'll probably want to do it again anyway by then, just on the basis of calendar age.

The lower road noise was interesting. The reduction in bump-thump over broken surfaces was to be expected, and was very clear, but the lower noise level at speed on the motorway (I did a short familiar section for testing purposes) was not something I had anticipated. The car was always a decent motorway cruiser but at normal motorway speeds now it seems much quieter. It is now an excellent high speed cruiser, not far off the serenity of my two year old BMW.

 

[DavidL]

I did a similar thing. My 90 T came with old (220K old) and worn standard suspension which was knocking at the front.
Whilst looking at aftermarket stuff I picked up a full set of barely used stock stuff from ebay for £100. I put it on and had the geo done and its a whole lot better.

I would however be a little hesitant in ordering new original struts/dampers as surely this is 20 year old technology. I would hope anything from a respected manufacturer newly designed would be better. I'm tempted by KWs and Gaz but will want a ride in a suitably equipped car to prove the point. When I was at RPM last they offered a ride but sadly it turned out that the 2 cars onsite with KWs were inoperative for other reasons. Oli was very positive about them mind despite the cost.

I would also point out that decent tyres make a big difference to the suspension feel - at least I think so.


(Grrrr spell check doesnt like tyres - bloody yanks!!)

 

[Lowtimer]

Tyres can of course make a huge difference: not just make but size.

I think the issue with the available aftermarket stuff, at least the stuff I've been able to find out about, is the market it is designed for. It all seems to be delevloped with the assumption that the punter is pursuing a vision of bigger wheels, wider, lower profile tyres, lower ride height with less suspension travel, and higher spring rates. Nothing wrong with that for track use or ultra smooth roads, but it's not what works for me on a bumpy B road in the pouring-down rain, nor is it really what I want on a long motorway drive, come to that.

There has undoubtedly been some interesting suspension technology developed over the last 20 years, mostly in the direction of computer-controlled variable dampers as fitted to the latest 997s, but in the absence of that sort of technology I don't think many new cars ride better than their counterparts did 20 or 30 years ago: most of them seem to ride worse, perhaps because of the aesthetically-driven trend towards ever bigger wheels and rubber-band tyres. And on imperfect surfaces I believe that a poor ride hurts the handling of a car.

Interesting piece in Autocar this week where Prodrive's head of vehicle dynamics, Matt Taylor, says: "..the ride and handling compromise is, in part, something of a myth: many of the aspects of good handling (grip for example) necessitate a good ride. A vehicle with no body accelerations would have perfect ride isolation and exceptional handling." And later adds: "Unarguably, the main driver for both low ride height and big wheels is vehicle styling, but from a ride and handling viewpoint there are lots of reasons to stay away from both."

 

[JamesBall]

Chris at Center Gravity (google it if you don't know him, he comes highly recommended) recommends Koni Sport dampers if you aren't really tracking the car. I'd love to have it done but by the time you factor in buying the kit, replacing all the necessary bushes and a really good geo set up you are looking at a two grand. Of course, you could DIY and do a basic geo for much less but I don't have the time or skills unfortunately.

 

[Hilux]

ORIGINAL: Lowtimer

My 1990, 86,000 mile Turbo is now back home following the latest phase of its rolling restoration. This time the task was a complete suspension refit carried out (as with the earlier general mechanical refurb) by Hartech in Bolton.  After much soul searching, I went for factory stuff rather than aftermarket: all new bushes, new standard dampers, and a geo setup. The only change I made from the original spec was getting the uprated 968 castor mounts to sharpen the steering response a bit.

I went for standard because I wanted a compliant car capable of working well on fairly poor surfaces, as the roads I frequently drive on around the Dales and the North Yorkshire moors can be quite rough. (For much the same reason I am on 16" wheels and intend to stay on 16".)   I considered the KW V3 setup carefully, and a lot of people talk about the KW being more comfortable than the factory suspension, but when you drill down into it, what they usually seem to be comparing it with is factory  M030, and invariably old, clapped-out M030 at that.

So, yesterday morning I set off in the car back over the Pennines to North Yorkshire. And what a pleasant experience it was. I have had cars partially re-bushed and re-dampered before many times, so was expecting it to be better, and it was not horrible before it went in. But  what I was most surprised by was the sense of calm, solidity and unflappable quiet competence that the car now conveys. Whilst still benefiting from a firm, agile platform the car has acquired a generous side-order of the feeling of a high speed luxury express, which I like very much.Road noise is reduced, and a lot of old creaks and thumps and rattles have simply gone away.  Irregularities that would have been loudly heard (and felt) now pass by with no more than a muted shrug from the car.

The anti-roll bars have not been changed but have been rebushed, and this has significantly reduced the roll in medium speed, 50 - 60 mph corners, presumably thanks to the better location of the bars themselves. They also seem to be working better in unison - the car is better balanced than before. The car turns in better and is much more composed during power on / off variations in mid corner.

The steering is better at all speeds - it seems lighter and more positive at low speeds, and not so 'loose' at high speeds.

It's early days, and I have not chucked it around hard yet, but I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure for the dedicated track day enthusiast there are better setups, but for a calm, capable high speed GT which can soak up the miles on all kinds of road, in all kinds of weather, and which can still dance on the moors when the time is right, I can't imagine it getting much better than this. Money well spent, I reckon.

Next port of call: Daytona Coachworks in a few weeks' time.

What great musical prose and description...............you should be an author.

 

[George Elliott]

Exactly my opinion Hilux, so refreshing to read, if the car drives as nicely as the post reads it must be a delight !

I guess its a case of the car being brought back to the original design intent which was the result of much testing and development all those years ago.

George

944T

 

[Lowtimer]

Kind of you to say those things, gents.
I shall try to find some other potentially worthwhile things to add as I go through the continuing rejuvenation of the car, if it seems like subject matter that others might benefit from in future.